Talk about Tom and that experience and then give me your thoughts about the contrast between walking land and seeing how he sees what he sees and Bill and Ben.

Well, to start, a couple of things that they share.

They're both brilliant at routing a golf course, figuring out how the golf holes navigate and traverse the land.

They both surround themselves with brilliant people, fellow architects and shapers, and they're both outstanding leaders.

Now, their methods for how they execute are different.

Tom really dives into the topo maps from Traverse City and studies them extensively and then confirms his hypotheses on the ground.

Bill uses topo, but he tends to just start by walking for days and weeks on end on the ground.

How about with respect to the destination golf, Michael? Where is it all going?

What makes you excited about those in particular? And kind of a related question is, What gets you excited to get up out of bed every day to go to work, so to speak? What is it that is driving your enthusiasm right now, either directly related to these projects or other things you have going on?

Well, I love being creative and I love working with creative people.

So whether if it's people in my office, if it's building architects, master planners, we get to work with, if it's Bill Corr or Jimmy Craig or Tom Doak, I'm an idea person.

And I love working with people who embrace ideas collaboratively.

And I just love that I get to do that every day.

So generally speaking, the opportunity to be creative is, And I think business is a very creative endeavor as well.

It gets me out of bed in the morning, often earlier than I would like it.

You mentioned something a few minutes ago that I just wanted to come back to, if you don't mind, what is a familiar golf landscape?