Everybody should go check out and see what's in their neighborhood.

That's right.

You know, we wanted to show a prototype of how the technology works.

So we have a direct-to-consumer capability where we allow them to participate their devices so they can actually see the system in operation and we can show how the software brings all these different devices together.

That's that awareness layer that I'm talking about.

You know, geographically, if your utility could bring your devices in, you can see those in one pane of glass.

You can understand what's participating in your backyard.

And how do you decide how much somebody gets, when to charge, when to discharge, and all of that complicated stuff where you would have to coordinate with a utility to make it happen?

Um, yeah, I guess as you see this kind of big deployment on, uh, load growth driven by AI and, and particularly how it might affect the edge, how does kind of winning the participation problem that GridRails is trying to do look like?

Yeah.

So that I think, and when you're thinking about those edge data centers, that's just an- another participant in the grid.

And I think in a lot of cases, the way that those are, are anticipated to be constructed is, you know, certain demand side consumption from- The grid, a certain amount of storage and, and other technologies on site to reduce that demand or eliminate that demand at certain points in the day.

Now, I think that those edge data centers can offer a lot of load balance, or they can help actually drive the economics for that load serving area down and improve those economics for the average consumer if they're balanced.

But [chuckles] many cases, if that is a community that that data center is going into, that community is gonna evolve and change over time, and that community is gonna adopt other technologies.

They're gonna adopt a higher degree of HVAC because weather is swinging and more people are getting HVAC in their homes and in their businesses to compensate.

What are you seeing in terms of, uh, where the motion and the movement is going? And then I guess secondarily, uh, what would you like to see more of, right, that can help, uh, get this orchestration problem solved to a higher degree?

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So you, you're asking a great question here.

And if you think about what's happening in our country, which these are all very positive trends in electrification.

We're seeing, yes, this demand from data centers.

That's a huge, uh, growth area for electric usage, but we're also seeing continued growth in electric vehicles.

We're seeing continued demand for heating and ventilation and air conditioning because we're getting warmer, and we're looking for more comfort.

We're also just seeing a continued expansion in new homes, and we're seeing other technologies that are drawing more electricity, like battery storage, which is replacing standby gas generators and other forms of backup power.

But wait, you're referring to like thermal losses, right, in transmission?

And is it-- is the biggest challenge with that, that the orches- that orchestration layer needs to be reimagined, or that it doesn't exist in a way it needs to exist given these, the reality of, of where VPPs and DERs are now?

So the devices are all active, and consumers understand that they've got 'em, but the orchestration is lacking in both understanding how and when those devices are consuming energy and providing the right incentives for consumers to want to participate in being part of the grid.

I think we have a history here of set it and forget it, and then what happens is a s- a centralized company comes along, like one of the utilities comes along and says, "Gosh, you know, I've got a problem in this feeder group.

More people have purchased an electric vehicle than I expected, and now suddenly they're all trying to charge at the same time, and there's not enough power to go around." So it creates a problem on that feeder, or it creates a problem elsewhere in the network.

And the consumers don't really have an incentive to stop charging or to charge at a different point in time.

I think that we've tried lots of batch processes, like, uh, give them a new, uh, tariff rate, if you will, so something that would give them a lower price or a different price or maybe a better price.

In some cases, I think they've been asked to install a second meter, which is extremely expensive and time-consuming.

Uh, can you talk about how that, that real-time incentive is built into or, or part of that, and what kind of a difference that this approach and way of thinking can make?