and how they work?

Yeah, so...

You know, in the early days, going back as far as the SALT agreements, those were really, you know, those put limits on big things, missiles, ICBM launchers, things that you could see from space fairly effectively.

And so national technical means and those kind of reconnaissance satellites became an important element of verification.

And if you go back and you look at those agreements, the use of NTM is enshrined in the text of those treaties, along with a commitment by states not to interfere with those, not to use camouflage netting and try to spoof the people.

cameras and sensors and things on board those satellites so that was kind of that was the start of that verification as we started to kind of figure out what was in the realm of the possible um and then when you started you got into you know the next sort of big one was the inf treaty And there, you're dismantling things.

So you have to, and it's not necessarily things that you can see all the time with satellites.

What got you interested in nuclear disarmament and verification? What has been your path?