Uh, just say a word about the, the, the kind of help that, uh, that this man was ultimately able to give them.

Yeah, I'm just a little...

I'll just back- I'll backtrack just a little bit and say that if you think about the 1950s, this was a time when scientific advancements were, um, were making inroads into all, all sorts of aspects of American life, in, in medicine, the polio vaccine, and, um, technology, and, uh, the, the, the first developments that would lead to y- you know, everyday use of the computers.

One area where scientific advancement was not employed was in police work.

The police were really resistant to any, any kind of, um, uh, improvements or, or help in this area.

They didn't...

The police thought, "You know, what can somebody with a college education do to help us? Certainly somebody in a forensics lab, they can't help us, y- you know? Police work is done the old-fashioned way." And so they were resistant to seeking out help from somebody like a, a, uh, a psychiatrist.

What was the nature of the sort of breakthroughs that, uh, ultimately led to this, uh, gentleman being, uh, identified?