Absolutely.

It's not an individual calling you, reading a screen, trying to make a subjective call based on data points.

Okay, so for the transaction itself to be enforced, we have to all come to the table and admit that truckload freight is a digital transaction.

Every truckload that moves in the United States of America is a digital transaction, full stop.

Now we may trade that volume a little old school, maybe some email documents or phone system or telegram chat, but it's a digital transaction.

So any point in that transaction that's not guarded is an open vector.

So I can be aware that someone's trying to, like I can be aware that the MC, I can know all this, but what shuts it down and keeps the transaction from going based on the awareness? And if you rely on a human, or if it's a standard, Malcolm, everybody agrees.

No, I want to follow up on this because monitoring when it comes to data and other things in the space, when did this stop being enough? Was there like a specific market point? Like obviously COVID, but like was there a specific inflection point where this was like, hey, like this is not enough right

this feels like like a vice or some kind of like ratchet just being screwed tighter yes like progressively yes um and you know it's it's a bit like the frog you know boiling in the pot of water right yeah yeah like um you have to really go back and look retrospectively at the data to see how much has changed

Yeah, and I think I'd be interested in beginning to do that, like with your team saying, hey, what are, are there behavior patterns we're seeing that are affecting tender rejections? Because I bet just, we were talking earlier, I've got some things in my mind where I bet there's correlations.

One of the things we are seeing is that the most sophisticated brokers are not waiting for the market to shift and them to kind of sit back and go, oh, we're back.

I think the most sophisticated brokers, the way that they're using our technology, partner technology, they're preparing to stay efficient.

is that like if you look i mean i mean just look at the article kingston wrote on on you know rx over ch robinson today and the difference in earnings and and and the ratings that they're getting you know robinson they're doing a phenomenal job at finding efficiencies i mean bozeman's done a really good job there and you know we're seeing that in private brokers too um you know companies like ally logistics um you know things that um andy smith's doing at circle um You know, we see this in some of their booking behavior data.

And so I think what will happen is those are the brokers that will be willing to bounce and absorb a lot of freight, but it won't be because margins go back to 20%.

No. Right? It won't be because...

They're willing to... offer more value-added services and those sort of things, then I think they've been, you know...

Talk to us a little about Highway, some of your experience, and we'll get into some of this recent news that you've all had.

Yeah, so the background to Highway is interesting.

It's funny, Thomas, I talk about it so much, I just assume everybody knows, but I still get a lot of questions of like, where'd Highway come from? Why was it started? And the reality is that what carriers will know about definitely is Triumph.

Because either they've been factored by Triumph or they've gotten paid by Triumph through their factory department or Triumph Pay.

And our CEO, Jordan Graft, actually ran the Triumph Pay business within Triumph.

He was the CEO of that business.

And so Triumph's got community banks and they've got a factory business and they've got supply chain financing and they've got a payments business.

right, so that no matter what they're doing, so the future, right, that no matter

What are you seeing evolve right now in the game?

I would say two big things.

One are the communication channels.

And I think this is what you were talking to OneRail about.

AI is making it worse and sometimes harder because it's the same thing.

Craig and I have talked about this twice.

When you go digital without KYC, you actually open more fraud vectors.

What do they need to be on the lookout for?

So it's a great way to help both parties, brokers trying to find carriers and vice versa.

And you think about, so you bring another good point.

You've got two things.

So am I a good carrier? Can I haul freight? That's a very yes, no question, right? If you're connected, if we verified your identity, if you have valid insurance, you can move freight.

and you can move freight from maybe a very specific broker.

But that broker may have shipper or business specific rules.

So that's where you get into the tiering, right? Like, hey, I want to work with this carrier on all of these customers or on all of these origin destinations.

Yeah.