For those of our listeners who have never heard of the Brown Mountain Lights in North Carolina, tell them what it is.

Yeah, well, I mean, yet again, this is a kind of phenomenon that you'll probably hear about in a lot of different places.

I'm not sure of anything specifically there in Mississippi, but over in Texas near Marfa, there are lights that people see down on the South Carolina coast.

Around Somerville, people say that they see lights.

There's an area up in Pennsylvania where I know people say that they see lights.

So, you know, ghost lights, spook lights, you know, haunt lights, whatever you want to call them.

I mean, these are things that are seen all over the place.

what it sounds like.

I mean, that's, yeah.

That's a great, so, okay, you bring up a really important one right there.

When I first started getting involved, and I'm only an avocationalist, you know, you and I have done some field work together out there.

That's right.

And we know some extremely, extremely gifted, qualified career archaeologists.

Yeah, credentialed people.

Right.

Tell us about that.

That's what bugs me about the, quote, "debunkers."

You know, Jim, by the way, uh, we, we talked about on the audio podcast version of The Paranormal Report this week, uh, a Washington Post article that was talking about what it termed a bizarre ESP test that were conducted on Aboriginal children from Manitoba, Canada back in, like, the 1930s and '40s.And, uh, in, in the article what was interesting is that it's talking about, uh, the, the, the human rights issues and of course the injustices, the ethical problems involved with submitting these children to these kinds of, the experiments.

And it actually at one point, uh, literally links to something that it calls bizarre treatment.

But it had nothing to do with ESP, uh, experiments that were conducted, I should mention, at the Rhine Research Institute.

We actually, looking at this article, see this.

And later on in the article I, I mention that, uh...

I, I said to Jim as we were talking about this on the show that, uh, you know, they, they quote Michael Shermer but they don't quote John Kruth, who's the director at Rhine, to get a perspective from him about this.

They're all aliens.

So I guess that's, that's part of it too, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah, Bobo, that's a really good point, man.

Yeah, that is a, a crucial point because many observers in the military in recent years have claimed that they have seen these things, like you said, coming out of the ocean or going into the water, and that's nothing new.

I mean, there are reports going all the way back to the, uh, old US Air Force Project Blue Book investigation, which lasted a couple of decades.

Still the longest systematic US study, or actually study by any government that's known to the public.

But, uh, they had reports describing UFOs coming out of the water and going in as well.

He said that's one of the three hot spots in the, in the globe.

I know

... around the time that you and I first met, and in fact, actually a few years before that, going back to around 2008, this man, James Lacatski, made his first visit to the infamous location out there in the, the Uint- uh, the Uinta Basin in, uh, Utah, known as Skinwalker Ranch.

So right around that time, there was obviously a lot that was percolating, both in terms of how you and I got to know each other, but behind the scenes, the, the very events that would set the stage for really much of the modern UAP dialogue.

So with that brief introduction out of the way, your question, who was James Lacatski? This is the man who was, again, the former both DOD and also at a time, uh, as he mentions in the recent interview he did with, uh, George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell for their Weaponized podcast, he had also worked, uh, even under the Department of Energy.

But this program in question, the Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application program, uh, which also had an unclassified nickname which came to light first, that was AATIP, uh, and that was initially the name that was given of the program in the 2017 reporting that appeared in The New York Times.

But this DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, program, uh, that Lacatski headed essentially began with that trip to Skinwalker Ranch.

He goes out there to the ranch.

Yeah