But working on fishery issues much longer, so tell us how you got there.

Yeah, it's not a story that makes any sense.

I'll try to...

I've sort of constructed a, a version of it where you can kind of look at it and go, "Okay, I can see that maybe." But, um, no, I, uh, my degrees are all in physics and astronomy.

I was doing, um, graduate school.

I started by doing a lot of radio astronomy, so I, like, spent some time at Arecibo.

I spent some time, uh, on, at some now-defunct telescope between the border of California and Nevada that involved like...

[laughs]