And you must have a really unique perspective on, on that, actually, I think.

Yeah.

I think, um, it's, it's absolutely fundamental, isn't it? And not, not just to, to, to, to the business side, but just the personal side as well, is about trust is, is, is, uh, the kind of the foundation of everything.

And I think the way of, uh, uh, creating trust is about being honest, you know, because, you know, you ...

Different people will have different objectives.

And, and the public sector and the private sector, often they come at things from different angles, and they have different pressures.

And, but they often want the same things ultimately.

[laughs]