How do you work out what parts of the founder story gets moved on to the next transition and the next story that he's creating, and what gets left out, and what-- And are founders not gonna be pushing back going, "No, this was, this is why we started our surf company was because I was sitting on my backside and..." You know, how do you do that? How do you, how do you decide what stays and what go- goes out?

So one answer I have to that is that if you actually look at any really successful thriving scaled company, they will have some version of, "Here's where we started." And often the here's where we started will include the story of a founder or of the community that the founder was in.

The reality is that storytelling is endless rewriting, and those versions that you read from those companies, they are probably a third or fourth rewriting of that origin story.

By which I don't mean that they're not true, but that if we ourselves in our own experience look back on incidents from our life, they should look different with the vantage point of three years later, five years later, 10 years later.

So it's not about ripping the founder story out or the origin story out.

Origin stories are so invaluable as like a point of truth for people to go back to.

The question is to, with a mature and sensible mind, keep relooking at that story and go, "What aspect of that would we bring out now?" Rather than to keep robotically retelling the same story in the same words that says, "One day I was walking down the road, and I saw this thing, and it made me think of this." But to instead go, "Okay, that incident from my life, that's acquiring more and different meaning as time goes on, as more people have become part of this story.

Yep, the story's gonna be less about me and more about what the company is." What does the founder do then? And is there an example of someone who's actually had the grace and the ability to step back and allow the story to have a, a life of its own?