And something else that's quite different, Matthew, in, in the UK, a defendant still, it's their, entirely their choice if they're going to testify, but is it right that if the prosecution lay enough foundation such that it would be relevant for the defendant to testify, the jury can take a negative inference during deliberation if they choose not to? Is that right?

This is something that starts at the police station.

So at the police station, the caution goes something like this.

"You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defense if you fail to mention something that you later rely on in court." So that's an inference, and so that, that's at the police station.

It's similar in the Crown Court.

So when it's their turn to give evidence, their time, and they choose not to, that's the point at which the judge may say, "Do you, you do realize that this is something that could be brought to the attention of the jury at the conclusion of the case?" So that's the scenario, and it's similar to the police station, and it's, it's kind of quite an obvious point.

Would they not have wanted to, to defend themselves, to explain the situation? And it will be dealt with in more technical terms in the course of a trial, and it will vary from trial to trial.

Do they have things like can they do it behind a screen to protect their anonymity? How does that work?

Can you perhaps unpack that a bit for us in terms of the pre-charge engagement, what that actually means in practice, and why you believe it is where the best criminal defense work actually often happens?

What I would say is that the best day's work isn't necessarily securing an acquittal in the Crown Court.

I mean, there, there are times when that's what you have to do.

But far better is, is the day when you can ring your client up and say, "Your case is being NFA'd," which means no further action, which means it's over.

And that's the client on the end of the phone really trying to digest, "You mean it's over? Do you mean, do you mean..." I, I, it's, uh, um, "Look, I'm gonna email you and explain it to you properly, but I wanted to ring you first so that you knew as soon as possible.

It is definitely over.

You have got your life back." And that is, to me, where we can have, um, the best impact, and it's, it's one of the things that sets us apart from other firms.

So tell us more.