Yeah.

Um, and he was bringing over two brewers from Belgium to sort of run it and run the program, and he was like...

He had this idea of, like, telling this story about, like, bringing these kind of brewers over and, and it's not just like a typical contract brewery, like, really, you know, showing that there's, like, roots in European brewing and stuff like that.

So I, I kind of pitched him, or he asked me if I wanted to, like, create something around it.

I was like, "Okay, that'd be pretty cool." So he sent, um, me and my buddy who I was working with at the time on some other, like, corporate project stuff out to Belgium to meet up with the brewer, and then I went out to Alberta to kind of show the, like, progress of, like, going over and how it was, like, kind of all getting started.

And I think in, in Belgium is where I, I won't say, like, fell in love-

Well, would you say that was probably, like, the pivotal point for you to get into this industry?

I think it was sort of the...

Like, h- how can there be enough p- people to-- doing this to, uh, make a convention for it? What's going on? What are all y'all doing?

So it's still, like, in terms of, like, broader global scientific trends, a relatively small movement, but there's definitely enough of us to hold conferences every couple of years.

Uh, so the idea is, uh, behind the organization is to bring together, uh, performers, people in the magic performance community, with researchers to work on collaborations so that the researchers can look into new, different kinds of illusory methods to explore different ideas about human cognition.

And then optimally, the performers can also take away something to design new tricks and expand their repertoires and different ways of thinking about how they present.

Um, so a few of us are both performers and magicians.

So there's myself.

Uh, Gustav Kuhn has been a really major figure in this.

Hmm.

Like, h- how can there be enough p- people to, doing this to, uh, make a convention for it? What's going on? What are all y'all doing?

So it's still, like, in terms of, like, broader global scientific trends, a relatively small movement, but there's definitely enough of us to hold conferences every couple of years.

Uh, so the idea is, uh, behind the organization is to bring together, uh, performers, people in the magic performance community with researchers to work on collaboration so that the researchers can look into new, different kinds of illusory methods to explore different ideas about human cognition, and then optimally, the performers can also take away something to design new tricks and expand their repertoires and different ways of thinking about how they present.

Um, so a few of us are both performers and magicians.

So there's myself.

Uh, Gustav Kuhn has been a really major figure in this.

He was one of the co-founders as well.

Hmm.