Here is Papa Joe Jones on the brushes performing Old Man River.

Things change really significantly with the big band era, and maybe the first big shift here is increasing attention onto the drummer as a star performer.

So you don't really see many drummers who are actually band leaders until Chick Webb in Harlem, who starts leading his own band in the second half of the 1920s.

¶¶ And he is an incredibly influential drummer.

He plays at all kinds of dance ballrooms throughout upper Manhattan in the 1920s and throughout the 1930s.

And lots of other aspiring drummers go to watch him and to learn from him, including Buddy Rich, including Gene Krupa.

So really, many drummers who...

Why don't you all...