Hmm.

And that's how I started working alongside psychologists.

And when we got that understanding together, then I started to learn more about, you know, how they, how they deliver in practice, and vice versa.

I then became the catalyst for inc- for introducing- Uh, I guess a word used later as biculturalism in practice.

The fact that the m- that we had quite a few Māori in that unit and were disconnected, and they were there for treatment for their offending, but at least we could provide a reconnection or reclamation to their culture as well as they received the, the, the clinical approaches to treatment.

And so by having those two perspectives, um, in treatment, what that did was it provided a, an extensive conceptualization to both w- not only both worldviews, but for options for those participants, uh, or clients, uh, to view the world from a wider lens and, and also be able to, to narrow it down to exactly where they wanted to go.

And is that when I reflect on Te Whare Tapa Whā versus traditional CBT or whatever Western model you're thinking of, is- are they the main things that butt heads when you think about te ao Māori worldview versus a Western psychological approach? Is it the spiritual element that's missing, or is it more than that?

I think, I think just the, you, uh, you, the, the taha wairua.