scenographer? Somebody who works with

design, the visual design of performance.

And yeah, she was talking a lot about the agency of objects and the agential objects.

And I was really fascinated in my process about the materiality of things on stage, of objects on stage, and had read a lot about this through another scholar called Alice Rayner.

And she talks about the kind of doubling in theatre.

You've got the objects on stage are themselves, you know, they're dresses.

But they're also something else.

What were those? Can you just tell us what we would have seen people doing in that piece?