Where are we at with this standoff between the government and the public sector unions? How far apart are the two sides?

Yeah, I think we're kind of in limbo at this stage.

The next 24 hours will tell a lot, particularly whether we'll have a strike and public sector workers downing tools on what is going to be the most crucial day in Ireland's EU presidency and a huge day for the Irish economy.

Diplomatic security and all those services.

The engagement with this government-appointed group, the Kevin Foley Group, that's going to continue tomorrow.

That's essentially talks about talks, so that's engagement aimed at getting the talks back on track.

So we'll know tomorrow, I think, whether those talks can get back on track or not.

Is there a compromise here? These talks are ongoing, obviously, between the Law Society and the department.

Mary, did the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre get it wrong with this ad, with the tone of it, do you think?

I think they got it wrong.

And like, I believe the message was the right one.

Looking at it, I actually think from a sort of more viewpoint of neurodivergence and a lot of children who are neurodivergent and don't like hugs, I think it was actually probably a good message from that point of view.

But I think the ad itself, to me, was almost, it was very dark.

It was almost a little bit kind of creepy.

And I think, you know, it was probably offensive to grandparents because it made the granny look really scary.

OK, Mary, this is an issue which raises passions, it would be fair to say.

So is this a good or a bad thing for a prospective Taoiseach to be in this situation?

Well, people in government are backing what he's doing.

TDs say he is grasping a nettle that has not been grasped previously, that had to be grasped, but previous ministers were sort of afraid to.

So he's getting praise internally for actually taking on something that was so hard to take on.

However, I think no one wants the government to appear so bullheaded that it's not willing to give some kind of compromise.

Like TDs, when you talk to them and ask them about this, yes, they're worried about the sort of difficult cases that might emerge if, you know, for example, it's been raised, you know, people on the streets who shouldn't be on the streets and what might happen then.

So there is a potential here for something to really damage the government.

The opposition are basically portraying him as a guy who goes in feet first and doesn't really think about landing on his backside.

Mary, I'm presuming there's no last-minute chance of this strike being averted, is there?

[inhales] No.

No hope really, I would say, at this stage.

Like, that's despite the kind of [clears throat] 11th-hour attempts by government.

There's been multiple statements today from Minister Jack Chambers, a statement in from government themselves, and then the Taoiseach speaking about it on the floor in the Dáil, all with a similar message really that, you know, these strikes are unreasonable and that the public will suffer.

And there's also a bit of an attempt, I think, to appeal directly to public sector workers themselves, maybe over the heads of their unions, um, because the government statement was saying, you know, that the, the public servants would be best served themselves if, um, they came to the talk, table to talk.

But I think all of this really is aimed not at adver- averting the strikes, 'cause I don't think the government has any hope or expectation that that will fin- happen at this stage, but kind of, I suppose, framing the conversation, um, because this will eventually turn to a battle for, um, [lips smack] you know, public, public support.

Um, public support, is it possible to gauge where that lies at this stage? Is it, it's very early days yet, I suppose.

Does anybody trust the Parades Commission or the infrastructure around it anymore?

Yeah, well, I, I think a lot of people are kind of wondering how we got to this point [laughs] and even, you know, we were speaking about beforehand the fact that the police had told the Parades Commission that, you know, they believed that, that, you know, this, this could take place without significant public order issues.

Like, that's still puzzling, and that's something that people don't know why that position was taken either.

Um-

the last couple of days?

Yeah, and I, I just, and I think since Friday, since this decision was made, I think, like, within minutes, I would say the automatic response was, you know, almost moving, you know, beyond Drumcree to, like, where is the contagion going to stop and, you know, whether, whether this could do real, well, damage to S- Stormont in the first place and then where it goes in terms of, um, in terms of lasting damage t- you know, to, to, to the, to the, to the peace process some people are writing as far as that.

And it wouldn't be up to the government to advise them on the outcome of that decision.

Yeah, like I don't think anyone would argue with the fact that the handling of this and the communication and the engagement within the FAI and the team and all that in the 48 hours in particular beforehand was absolutely shambolic.

But having said that, I think the FAI themselves, and it was clear from the committee today, believe that they had a remit and their remit is incredible.

football and, you know, the football team and the financial aspect.

And that is their remit.

And it doesn't go beyond that.

And anything political then should really have, you know, they were left on their own to make this massive decision that went beyond their remit, that went into, you know, politics.

It's

It's a sticky one, isn't it?

Yeah, well, Jack Chambers, I think, has gone further over the past couple of days than he has gone before in sort of, you know, saying explicitly my door is open.

Please come to these talks.

He's written to the unions and he's I feel he's making overtures to the unions trying to invite them to the talks, you know, and the fact that there's almost two billion euro will be set aside in next week's.

Budget for public sector pay increases, I think, is a statement of intent on the government's part, you know, that they want to start talking.

However, I guess at this stage it will come down to after the budget.

There's probably a bit of a hope there in government that the whatever the tax income tax cuts are in the budget and other cost of living measures such as they might be.

So all these protests that might be out on the streets, they won't get a look at the pr- he won't see them, and they won't get a look at him.

Mm.

So there'll be protests on the streets.

Now, these are anti-war, you know, um, peace protests, as it were, so, uh, you know, whether we can expect trouble or not is another thing.

Probably unlikely, but, you know, they are expecting massive crowds at these protests.

The security plan in place for Trump's visit, it's been called Operation Far Sunrise, and the threat level against him is described as the highest ever for any US president visiting Ireland.

So this is a very complex, um, it's probably the most complex security operation in the history of the state, and that's something that informed Garda sources would say.

And Mary, if you had to predict, what is the outcome of the weekend? What will be our assessment on Monday, and I can play it back to you.

OK, Mary Regan, the politics of this, what is going on? Because quite clearly, Micheál Martin and Simon Harris are not singing off the same hymn sheet here.

Yeah, there's a lot of tussles going on now, I think, between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in relation to this budget.

And there's a couple of reasons for that.

I mean, first of all, Simon Harris has kind of dominated the conversation around income tax cuts.

And you hear every time a Fine Gael has asked a question about the budget, they'll answer, we're making work pay.

So they're really owning that side of the conversation on the budget.

Maybe the Fianna Fáil side are feeling a little bit left out and they want to stamp their mark on it.

It is pretty stark, the figures that are in.

That's having a, a, a big impact on those people, isn't it?

Yeah, the courts are really not working very well this week and last week.

And, you know, I mean, in a normal industrial dispute, you might say, well, people's daily lives are being disrupted.

People can't get buses, so they can't bring their kids to schools.

I mean, unless you're having an interaction with the court or up in court or either an accused or a victim, then it's not really affecting you.

But for people who are in the courts, the disruption is very, very obvious.

We've had the Rape Crisis Network yesterday saying something which was really stark, which was that people who are taking cases for either rape or s- other sexual assault offenses, victims are reluctant to get counseling until after their case has been heard because they have a fear that their counseling notes will be brought up in court.

But was it expected that it would be dragged out like this? And how has the row been perceived within the party?

Well, I guess there was an implicit sort of, you know...

you know, imply that he was referring to Keira Starmer and to the rest of the cabinet who he got rid of.

But I guess the big question is, you know, does he do politics differently? How does he do it? And like, will he be given the time to do it? Because as he said, you know, the seventh prime minister in 10 years, and he sort of leveled with the audience, you know, saying, I know this happens an awful lot.

but now that I'm here, let's keep it the same now.

Let's not have any more change.

Now is the time for stability.

So we've had a lot of change, but now I'm here, so let's not change anymore.

But isn't there some degree to which if people see a new prime minister coming in and immediately announcing stuff, even in a country that apparently can't afford them, if he does something to ease the cost of living, won't there be some degree of pressure on an Irish government to say, oh, well, look what's going on there, we better follow suit?

What is it, and what are we going to be doing for the next six months?

Well, I think from a journalist perspective, it means waiting around for [laughs] a long time, going through security checks.

We had Roberta Metsola, the President of the European Parliament, visiting last week, and that was the kind of first event, even though it happened before the presidency itself, and there's a lot of traffic disruption in Dublin.

There's a lot of waiting in rooms for hours for people to arrive for very brief, um, press conferences.

That kind of stuff.

But I mean, when Ireland is taking over the EU presidency from today, essentially what it means is that Ireland will be more or less in the European Council meetings of ministers, really, for different briefs or different areas, be they, you know, security, the budget, all these different issues.

And what Ireland will be doing is, when the big pieces of policy are proposed by the European Commission, and a lot of them will be proposed over the coming weeks, so for example, online safety and whether there should be a social media ban for children, then what happens is they have to go to all the member states, which is the European Council, all the countries of Europe.

So what, Mary? I mean, do the voters care here? Do they reward the statesmanship? They want Ireland to represent itself well on the international stage and just don't, don't want any accidents.

When I break it down into layman terms and I'm like, "Okay, just to let you know, when you say this, this is actually what you're asking for." And I would say 90% of the time women are like, "Oh, no, no, that's actually not what I want." So I'm always like, "Show me a picture." [chuckles] "Just show me a picture of what you think you want or you're, what you're leaning towards." And, uh, I don't know if that's, like, that would also help with, like, referencing with, uh, surgery or if it's just completely apples and oranges there as an example.

Well, I wanna talk about that a little bit later here.

But there's, for instance, um, and, and doc- there are some doctors who may disagree the, uh, with me on this, but there's a doctor, recently I saw his, his facelift, and he had his, uh, this patient's picture when she was right about 30, then her before photo, and then her photo after surgery.

But she was 70 now.

And he made the comparison that, "Look, she looks just like she did when she was 30." But the whole build-up to this, it was a lot, the build-up to her 30-year-old self.

And I made a comment and said, "We shouldn't do that.

That was irresponsible," because of the fact that we don't get to go back to 30.

But I think, but, but getting back to you, like I feel like, like, uh, like any, any woman that's looking to have plastic surgery done, like I, I feel like hiring you with your services would be so fantastic because you're gonna pair people up as you do, and then talk about like what, what, what does it entail for you and your clients for post-care.

Jacqueline, what is the political fallout, if any, to these comments, Mary?

Well, so far it's been fairly muted.

I think no one in a gale was willing to sort of bite so far and give, you know, further, you know, fuel to the story.

But I think, you know, Simon Harris will probably not be able to avoid commenting on this.

And he's commented just a short time ago, sort of playing down the comments, saying that, you know, that there's no, people have to work together instead of against each other and not really addressing the erratic or specific comments But as was mentioned by Jim, Leo Radcliffe does have farming roots, but I was looking at when he spoke about those farming roots and he spoke about his mother coming from a family farm in

Dungarvan and how he

travelled there every summer as a kid, even though he was a city boy.

He made those comments incidentally in a couple of interviews in the run-up to the Fine Gael leadership contest, which he ultimately won.

[instrumental music plays] Right, Mary Regan, after a week of chaos, six days that very much rocked the government, what's the outcome? Talk me through this package.

I think the outcome, generally speaking, is a bit of a lose-lose situation now for the government because they have delivered what is a massive financial package outside of a budget, half a billion euro.And that's quite a hit to the budgetary arithmetic for the budget that'll come in October, but at the same time, they don't seem to have pleased anyone here.

The roads are still blocked today.

Protesters are still unhappy and saying that it's a little and not enough.

So essentially, the main thrust of it was to further cut the excise, um, on fuel.

So another 10 cent cut on a liter of petrol, that brings the total reduction to 27 cent.

Then the excise on green diesel by 2.4 cent, so that- that's a total cut of 7.4 cent when you take in the March announcement as well, and excise on diesel by another 10 cent, so bringing the total cut there to 32 cent a liter.

Can we rely upon all of the Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael backbenchers and the independent TDs supporting the government to vote the right way and that nobody will go overboard here?

But did you get the, the impression in the room, Mary? 'Cause one thing that, that occurred to me was that Donald Trump often frequently lashes out at people he doesn't like in these meetings, and given what we've seen with NATO allies the last few days, given that his counterterrorism chief has just stood down earlier today, was there a sense of Trump being a little bit like a caged animal in this meeting?

His back was to the wall, certainly, and at a few points when journalists were all trying to shout questions above each other, Trump pointed to one or two of his more favored journalists.

One of them, he was asking him about the BBC and his libel case against BBC, giving Donald Trump a really easy out there to have a go at fake news.

So Donald Trump is in a difficult position.

This meeting with Micheál Martin came at, like, a really, really critical juncture for Donald Trump's administration because he's now deciding between two very difficult choices on whether to fight on in this war or whether to, uh, halt it.

And if he continues to battle on and the price is still going, keep going up at the pumps, and he still causes more political damage at home while causing further drifts with his NATO allies and his transatlantic allies, that's a difficult option.

But if he stops the war without having achieved what you would expect his objectives to be, even though we don't know, but if he, I- if he, if he stops this war while not disarming Iran's ability to create a nuclear weapon, then that's a bad choice, too.

Can you tell me how you think overall this trip has been for the Taoiseach? Has it been a success? Was there anything that he kinda tripped on throughout it?

Patrick's Day as this kind of fun day in the calendar, or is it kind of a, "Ugh, God, a thing I have to do, the Patties are all over"?

As you said, when Obama became president, he completely e- embraced it, and I remember being over there just ahead of a Six Nations game, and he even name-checked Bod, Brian O'Driscoll, from the Oval Office, and Ireland went on, I think, to win the Six Nations at that particular point.

Then, when Donald Trump came, we kind of thought, "Yeah, he won't be that into this whole, you know, business either," and he hasn't quite embraced it that much, but he certainly is going along with it.

Um, and I guess it's, it's a chance to reach out to the sort of Irish electorate, such as it is these days, in America, which used to be very predominantly Democratic supporting, but that has changed.

Irish Americans tend to view Trump relatively favorably from what commentators over there would say.

So Donald Trump is continuing this tradition.

The Irish side are always petrified of dropping it for one year, even during COVID, in case it doesn't return again.

That, that no one notices he was there?

How big a deal is this for Phil, and what does the job entail?

Yeah, and I think this is a job that Phil Hogan has been sort of on maneuvers in relationship for some time, knowing that the head of this organization position would be coming up.

The FAO, essentially, it's one of the sort of specialized organizations of the United Nations, so it means that there are 195 members involved in it, so it's 194 countries, and then the EU as a whole is another member organization.

And it essentially works together on food security, on sustainable agri-food systems, and broadly, the fight against hunger globally.

And of course, this has taken on added relevance in the world we live on today because climate change is seen as, you know, one of the major contributions to food insecurity, conflict globally also leading to food insecurity and hunger.

And the UN has said recently that there can be no peace without food security, and there can be no food security without peace.

And the European Union really has become more involved in this area.

So Mary, now that he has secured the nomination, what are the next steps, and how likely is it that Phil will secure this job?

But despite those pronouncements, it feels like-

like-Disability is actually the biggest weakness and the biggest blind spot of this government, that there are policies that seem to really n- not, you know, chime very well with what's actually required on the ground, and they seem like these procedural exercises that the impact on children with needs, any sorts of needs, you know, it, it, it is really, really big on those children.

Um, and, you know, y- you'd have to wonder, you know, in, in this scenario, it just seems that what they seem to be kinda blaming everything on is the assessment needs process has, m- you know, resulted in a h- way higher demand.

Now, you'd argue that population is growing, too, but there's, there's greater demands for things like, you know, for special needs assistants in schools, for therapies for children, for all sorts of, you know, things that, you know, m- m- m- that, that families and children are in need of.

But the government is completely unable to meet any of that demand.

Now, there is a system in place to bring more therapies into school, but there seems to be difficulties in hiring therapists, for example, occupational therapists, speech and language therapists in particular, and this is all the while the government is giving pay increases amounting to up to 100,000 for some semi, semi-state bosses, their rationale for that being that it's hard to recruit the appropriate need, people that are needed and the talent that's needed in the semi-state companies that are entire- in charge of huge budgets.

It's also very hard to hire a speech therapist as things stand, and they're not getting pay rises of anything of that sort or percentage.

Yeah

[laughs]

[laughs] Well, I mean, we don't know a huge amount about his politics.

He hasn't answered any questions or spoken about his politics very much, other than that he wants to give the establishment a rattle.

He wants to be the sort of person that really causes a bit of a shock, that brings the political system into a position of questioning itself.

That seems to be his main selling point, along with talking about people in a very deprived part of the country, one of the most deprived areas, feeling completely underrepresented and left behind.

And if you look at that constituency in Dublin Central, the spoil the vote in the presidential campaign was the highest in the country at around 15%, so you can say that there's definitely a good degree of disaffection there with the political status quo.

There's a lot of speculation as to why Gerry Hutch wants to run.

And the difficulty, Mary, will be that the government parties are kind of up against it in this by-election one way or another, aren't they?

And Mary, picking up on that point, I suppose, what do you think? Is this done as far as Micheál Martin's future or are the rebels going to continue to push in? And where have we landed on these potential 12 signatories for a vote of no confidence?

Well, I think it's done as far as the report is concerned, as far as an immediate no confidence motion is concerned.

I don't see that happening for now.

But I would say after last night's meeting and after the report itself, that Micheál Martin is walking on pretty thin ice now.

I think it's been a very damaging episode.

I think the report, while it didn't have, as you said, any sort of smoking gun, it had nothing that they could really hang any blame on Micheál Martin for.

I think the omission of what Micheál Martin knew about Jim Gavin's issue with the tenant is probably problematic in the sense that we know contacts were made with Micheál Martin's chief of staff, Deirdre Galan, on the September 5th.

It's probably, again, Jim Gavin being thrown under the bus.