So, um, yeah, so l- let's, let's start with the first one, um, in that.

Okay.

Well, um, the, what w- we found is, uh, and the guy who wrote the book was Spencer.

He's retired recently, but he was a designer, and I'm a human factors person by training, so he always felt he was a better designer- When he understood what the user wanted.

And I was always trying to be a good researcher by bringing him stuff he could use, because the first time I brought him stuff, he looked at it, he said, "Marty, I don't know what to do with this." So being actionable has always sort of been like the holy grail to me.

For him, the holy grail has been, as a designer, is to be able to make an emotional connection.

And I think that we've worked together to sort of, uh, describe in that framework how to do it consistently and repeatedly.

Excellent.