And that is the proposal the plan for an afc nations league long talked about within asian football and first announced by the afc in december last year the proposals don't merely add another competition to an already packed schedule they actually completely rethink how international football in asia is structured we might save our own personal views for the end of the session that could be a long one and actually discuss the details first martin you wrote the story for our website and the format is incredibly complicated in parts but if you can do your best to give us a short synopsis of exactly what it is that's being proposed

I'll aim for short.

So stop me if I ramble on too long.

But I think first and foremost, as you mentioned, the proposals are fundamentally different to what we know as the Nations League model that is already run in Europe.

Instead, that being more of a revamp of how qualification works, but also how the rest of Asian football works.

So I think it's a significant change that often kind of gets confused with what Nations League is and what that's going to mean in an Asian context.

So simply, I suppose, after the next World Cup, so this window in four years time, so 2030, all nations will be placed in a tier system.

It should be – and obviously the same for the Asian Cup – as well and maybe this is a question for martin as well in in terms of this proposal is there any um um suggestion then that things will filter i mean is this only a men's thing is it happening the women's is happening in youth or are these all under 17s and the 20s and how they go about qualifying is this mirroring the the senior thing or are they just doing what they've always done and this is only for the elite men's side of things

They did okay against Colombia, but if damage limitation was the name of the game today, it didn't quite work, did it?

No, it didn't.

And I think probably everything that was surrounding the match probably didn't help them.

I think Portugal drawing against Congo, as much as that gave impetus or maybe some hope, potentially, of doing the same.

portugal are under pressure to kind of respond immediately um and now on an individual level messi mbappe etc are scoring for fun at the world cup ronaldo is going to want to join them and i think there was that significant response from them and i think On one side, when we look at the opposition, I think that's as good a Portugal team that I've seen for the last decade in terms of they were all working together.

There was a lot of harmony, a lot of innovation, quite a lot of interesting free kicks, which obviously led to a couple of other goals.

So I think already they were up against it.

When you give Mbappe that space and that time, he's going to make you pay.

And I think you spoke about this on the preview podcast earlier, uh as well in terms of um uzbekistan and just the the opportunities that the players have or have not had

and that this tournament potentially opens up and this tournament alone isn't necessarily going to change that but it can't hurt but it's what this tournament sets up for the future and you know if you go back 24 years as it is now to 2002 look at japan and korea and their squads almost entirely domestically based fast forward two decades when they've had that regularity of exposure at this level their players have now look at them their squads almost entirely european based and the the context of those squads the context of the players and then it has completely changed i spoke about it a psychological aspect of japan how that's changed and is constantly changing so as i said yesterday in relation to iraq and jordan and the same applies to uzbekistan today this is the start of their journey um mike was mentioned a few times when he spoke to rafshan ermatov he mentioned that they're going to the world cup to learn because for them this is the the start of a journey over the next decade or two that will hopefully see the same fruits as you know japan and korea have seen over the last two decades in you know in 10 20 years time talking about a completely different context around uh respect football and we can look back at this is the moment that it started so um yeah it's it's it's not all entirely positive it's not all entirely negative um it's just that aspect of there's that step up that they've still got to make and they're being exposed for that at the moment because they can't quite get there.

They can for patches in games and we've seen that and when they're able to have that sort of 15, 20-minute patch, they look really good.

They're just not able to sustain that for long enough and perhaps extended exposure to this level of football will help them.

So it's been a positive start and let's hope that can continue into the second and the third rounds as well.

uh as those teams get going but we'll switch to talking about uh the game now match just finished just um just an hour or two ago from when we're uh from when we're speaking so just sit here um i've just published your uh reflections on on our website theasiangame.net so i encourage everyone to to go and read that but what are your overall impressions of uzbekistan's performance

I think it's generally positive.

kind of

What did you make of his performance, Martin? And when you saw his name on the team sheet, were you surprised by that at all? And he was the real hero for Qatar on the night.

Yeah, I think he was significantly the hero.

You get these one-off opportunities at World Cups where everything goes for you.

And I think we will pick up on it as well in the Australian heroics when you have a goalkeeper in such exciting form and really kind of hitting the momentum at the top of his career.

all your stars start to align and you start to think we've got a chance here.

And I think Abenada, I think, yes, it was probably six months out post-Arab Cup.

I think the question marks about who was going to be in net was a good one.

So what did you make of the changes when you saw them on the team sheet? And what did you make of Australia's performance?

You know... bit of issues around the build up maybe to the playoff tournament but those issues have been usurped by Iran's concerns here so I think they're going in with a fairly solid preparation obviously a vastly experienced coaching staff behind them and a squad with I also think a really nice balance of players how do you size up their chances?

similar to what we've been saying before i think the group unfortunately on paper looks the stiffest norway probably the most the next up and coming kind of european team and could go quite far into the competition france as kind of world cup finalists and expecting to go again and then senegal depending on what definition you use are african champions at this moment in time as well so i think they're um So the plan on paper is stacked against them.

But I think aside from that, I think they're one of the more kind of interesting Asian nations going to it with the form and probably a lot of mitigations that are probably under the radar in terms of using against them, both the scheduling opportunities, the visa issues that we've seen in the last few days, I think they'll just use them to their advantage.

And I think Probably, if you looked at it in very basic terms, the defence versus the attack, I think the attack is their key strength in this.

And I'm hoping that there is opportunity to not just park the bus and actually start to attack that.

And you saw that against Spain, and that was the most refreshing take I took from it, is that they went 1-0 down for a fantastic goal from Ferran Torres.

And I think at that point, I expected either Iraq to kind of collapse or to kind of sit back and probably negate play.

do you mean? Like all the time he said, I

So they've done very, very well

at continental level.

What did you make of his performance? And, yeah, could he potentially be the guy to maybe chip in with the goals that they will be missing through Yazan's absence?

yeah i agree with michael in terms of the difference between um themselves and uzbekistan and they'll both probably play on the counter uh very similar styles of play is that jordan have an abundance of at least exuberance in attack the question mark will be about experience and quality in the final third but they've got a lot of movement they've got a lot of excitement yeah and i think asazaya is probably one of those players that will come under the radar from an asian perspective um but he's his momentum in form um he wasn't supposed to even be in the squad that went to the under 23s i think he was a late um call up um due to injury um and ended up being the best player in the tournament and his his opportunity in very tight um circumstances so a lot of his goals were kind of one touch kind of long range shots from distance um and in that tournament jordan was probably one of the only teams that really attacked it was a it was a dire tournament in terms of tactical in terms of a viewing perspective japan kind of cruise through most of it the one opportunity that japan struggled against was against jordan who forced them to penalty shootouts in the quarterfinals and the reason for that was the counter-attacking play that the senior team plays and aziza alongside alpha corey who's another um under 23 player that really kind of shone in that tournament um were two of those players that i think were going to be really explosive options um for jordan in this world cup and both of those players have gone on to play in egypt and into saudi as well so they're playing at levels that i think um can help them kind of push that on and i think with the injuries both to know that but also we've heard that there's been um a recent injury to sabra as well in the last couple of days as well so these two players i think an individual um are there to look uh especially in those games which are going to be tight and as much as they struggled against switzerland austria i think are another level down So if they can keep it tight for up to the hour mark and unleash these younger players who are going to have no fear and a lot of excitement going forward, I think that's where the opportunities are going to come from.

But yeah, the fact that they've had so long to drill these ideas in, did it surprise you that they looked as kind of shaky as they did?

I think in terms of the camp beforehand, I think it worked on two levels.

I think what Cannavaro's consistently said since he's taken charge is that they're not up to it in terms of fitness and physical attributes that are needed.

So they needed a sustained time to work on that.

i think a lot of players have come out as usually happens in kind of pre-season to these sort of things and say really kind of talking negatively about how how much work they've had to put in during this kind of very short period in time because i think it's been needed especially when you know that five five of their key men are currently playing in iran at the moment and haven't had that opportunity to play domestic minutes for a good few months that was another real concern The opposite to that is that you don't have that regular actual football playing minutes to experiment and to have that sharpness, which other nations will have.

And we saw this with Qatar going into the 2022 World Cup.

They thought it was a great idea to count them down and not expose them to domestic football from that respect.

And I think that's the key for Uzbekistan.

But yeah, the fact that they've had so long to drill these ideas in, did it surprise you that they looked as kind of shaky as they did?

I think in terms of the camp beforehand, It worked on two levels.

I think what Cannavaro's consistently said since he's taken charge is that they're not up to it in terms of fitness and physical attributes that are needed.

So they needed a sustained time to work on that.

I think a lot of the players have come out, as usually happens in pre-season, to these sort of things and said, really kind of talking negatively about how much work they've had to put in during this kind of very short period in time, because I think it was a bit needed.

especially when you know that five of their key men are currently playing in Iran at the moment and haven't had that opportunity to play domestic minutes for a good few months.

That was another real concern.

You know... bit of issues around the build up maybe to the playoff tournament but those issues have been usurped by Iran's concerns here so I think they're going in with a fairly solid preparation obviously a vastly experienced coaching staff behind them and a squad with I also think a really nice balance of players how do you size up their chances?

I know it's not quite the same country, but what have we made of Son out in the States? He's got a hell load of assists, but maybe not scored as many as he would have liked.

Yeah, I don't think maybe he is...

From a question mark perspective, is he winding down from that respect? And I think there's been a focus from Korean football that potentially he's taking it easy as he's moving towards the latter end of his career.

But with this in mind, in terms of being at his best for the World Cup for Korea.

And Son, is it...

He's significantly got a kind of a passion behind his national duty.

Being that kind of pinnacle face of the national team is really significant for him.

But what have you made of him in Paris this season?

아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서 아프가니스탄에서

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don't know, the last time the US was hosting this World Cup.

I suppose that's symbolic of Iranian football on the squad age in terms of that.

I think even in 2022, I think we probably all said the same in terms of this will be the last hurrah for this team.

It's probably getting a bit too old.

It's incredible that it's getting to this stage.

And obviously Kiros was still at that point of view in terms of that last hurrah.

head of head of this world cup i think galileo has been quite uh clear in terms of they the the aging players are fitter than the younger players and if we one of the benefits of i'd say in a very perverse way but in terms of the the the gulf war and how that's kind of played out for the for the domestic football a lot of these players aren't tired they haven't had much football in the last three four months um And yes, they've been a bit rusty, but obviously every player will have that kind of preparation.

I don't think we've had you on the pod to discuss that specific issue, but what's your take on Renard out, Donnie is in, is it the right move? Is it a move that can upset things? Is it a move that can harmonize things? And how do you generally size up the Saudi prospects?

Yeah, I think the Saudi prospects probably are quite similar across the whole of West Asia, which really goes back into the last comment.

As much as 2022 was a record World Cup for Asian teams, we still haven't seen a West Asian team progress to the knockouts since 1994, which was obviously Saudi in America before.

So maybe history is going to repeat itself.

In this respect, I think changing from Renard Stoney's doesn't upset anything because it was in a stage where nothing was working for Renard or even for Mancini beforehand.

So I think something needed to give.

Doney Springs, something different in terms of understanding the local environment, which I think is needed because again, Saudi aren't blessed with players in incredible form because they don't have either the opportunities at the bigger teams or playing at a lower level in terms of the Saudi Pro League.

But that was another sort of... landmark result for this team that sort of made everyone again sort of sit up and take notice has that heightened expectations I mean what is the the I guess the the narrative surrounding Japan over there in in Europe and in the UK is that heightened expectations and what are your expectations for Japan

Yeah, I think expectations have been heightened.

I think probably in 2022, the European perspective was, yeah, this was a kind of isolated incident.

Germany and Spain, it was a one-off.

However, obviously, the wins against England and Brazil beforehand kind of reaffirm the potential of Japan.

I agree with everything that's been said in terms of, I think, man for man and the potential in the players I think they have the opportunity to get to the last eight last four of the World Cup it's that mental kind of shift because I think even from 2022 I think every Asian nation that we're previewing here we're looking at the group trying to see if they can progress through the group whereas that's got to be not even a minimum for for Japan they've a minimum has to be a quarterfinal place because anything less than that they've either um stood still from 2022 or they've got or they've progressed and I think that's where it feels like it's a turning point I don't think there is a a middle ground for Japan in this World Cup it's either a failure and I think round of 16 back is is a failure for them Or we can see the new generation moving forward and becoming the first kind of large agent team on the national stage.

And then it starts to move that some of these players which we've talked about, and as much as there's been pressure within a European perspective, none of them none of them have gone on to be these leading players like i saw some hung them in or anybody else that would have played for a champions league winning team or from that respect so i think that's just the shift that's needed and if if the team goes through to the last four which they are capable of we'll start to see that progression seeing more players getting into those teams and actually having that mentality on a regular basis but this is the true test and as much as endo etc are coming out and saying we want that pressure on them that's different than actually taking that pressure in those key matches.

all right i'm going to only stick with you as we um shift tack across to saudi arabia probably a nation with uh lesser expectations of of doing something in japan and obviously with far greater complications in the build up to it as well one of our handful of countries to make relative last minute kind of coaching changes I don't think we've had you on the pod to discuss that specific issue but what what's your take on ran out out don't you see in is it the right move is it a move that can upset things is it a move that can harmonize things and and how do you um yeah generally um size up the the Saudi prospects

Yeah, I think the Saudi prospects probably are quite similar across the whole of West Asia, which really goes back into the last comment.

As much as 2022 was a record World Cup for Asian teams, we still haven't seen a West Asian team progress to the knockouts since 1994, which was obviously Saudi in America before.

So maybe history is going to repeat itself.

In this respect, I think changing from Renard Stoney's doesn't upset anything because it was in a stage where nothing was working for Renard or even for Mancini beforehand.

So I think something needed to give.

Downey Springs, something different in terms of understanding the local environment, which I think is needed because again, we're not Saudi are blessed with players in incredible form because they don't have either the opportunities at the bigger teams or playing at a lower level in terms of the Saudi Pro League.

And yeah, any other musings on Iran and indeed the fact that they're one of the few nations that have a rather naff old style football on their crest, maybe from, I don't know, the last time the US was hosting this World Cup.

Is there an excitement that this achievement of qualifying for the World Cup for the first time isn't just a one-off and that the future of Uzbekistan football is actually very bright?

Yeah, I think the last 10 years have been really well played in terms of the Football Federation.

There was a real focus about these number of near misses as we were kind of coming through that something had to change.

The domestic league isn't the best, even from an Asian standpoint.

This real kind of agricultural, quite...

Old style, 80s, 90s, English style football is quite physical, quite aggressive from that respect.

There's not a lot of money, so there isn't the number of international stars that you might come across.

I tell you what in the you know weeks ago when we were sort of planning the Uzbekistan episode if you'd have told me that Wes Houlihan's name would be inside of you were mad but there we go Uzbekistan have had three different national team managers since the start of 2025 the latest as we mentioned being Fabio Cannavaro can you just tell us Martin what's gone on there

How was it?

Well, completely different.

As I mentioned, it was smooth as anything last time in terms of 10-year build up, one coach, one single v- vision under Felix Sanchez, all the way up until the f- the final event, which, you know, [laughs] we might get to it in terms of how much of an embarrassment that kind of final episode was.

This time around, it's been all over the place.

Four managers in four years probably tells you how things have kind of changed over that stage.

That post-World Cup hangover was a struggle to get over of, and then you had the surprise of going straight into an Asian Cup, which they ran through and won out of really kind of, uh, out of nowhere.

They're entering, uh, this World Cup cycle as Asian champions, which is crazy for anybody who speaks to an Asian football because they're by no means the best team in Asia, but they have retained their Asian Cup title.

Are fans happy with the current one?