There's been so much detail that maybe we really are moving to a different place.

Yeah, as you know, there's been 55 changes since 1974 of structures and functions of local growth.

I'm, of course, talking about the National Audit Office document that came out 10 years ago that was revised three years ago that charted 55 changes a year.

previous guests on this broadcast have spoken about this Glenn spoke about it didn't he around what Andy Westwood and colleagues called shop and change the Bennett Institute have analysed this there seems to be an element of stability that's come up in the last five years so this is about putting the power of place back together stitching it back up where I think civil servants and policy makers and analysts are, I think, tired, but also given the fact there's been 55 changes, things have gone round and round about so many times, there's little left.

We'll come on to talk about this, about what you would want to do.

So for me, I think this current era, the last couple of weeks, I think is about solidifying and consolidating what we could call the power of place.

So one way that you could read Manchester is the rollout of a particular power of place model, the extent to which Manchesterism then gets rolled out successfully.

I just wonder what characteristics of success in the subnational space you can think of.