How are you?

Yeah, really good.

What a fantastic match to look forward to this weekend.

I really like this tournament.

It's a strange old tournament because we all know what's going to happen in terms of who the semifinalists are.

It kind of seems that way, and we've got to kind of meander our way to it.

But if you're looking for a single game of sport to watch this weekend, in terms of just the sheer physicality that it will bring.

What do they call you guys? The Barmy Army? Well, I'm not a Pom, so stick

You know, are we looking at Scooter plus somebody or is, i- is it more gonna be the sort of rotational system?

Okay.

So, and you know, a- as the train spotter that I am, everything is written down on bits of paper, people.

I find it just easier to retrieve when I'm sitting there in front of it.

There was our fifth different locking combination in the last five tests, four against you, one against Australia.

Tupou Vai played at six in Joburg, lock in Cape Town, lock in Soweto.

He played at six in Baltimore.

Right.

Almost feel like this test three will be the, the two gunslingers, um, you know, noon at g- at OK Corral.

Lots to unpack there, and when you're reeling off all those names, all those stats, everything that these players have done, uh, they...

Again, I'd just like to...

My overwhelming feeling is just to acknowledge what we've seen, and that is two fantastic rugby test matches.

And it's, it's so easy to get caught up in, and I'm part of the, the media rat pack.

It's so easy to get caught up in these narratives that are put out there in stories and, and things have to be written about, because that's what the sport is.

And sitting here chewing the fat, talking about what a great game it was, well, that's just not sexy to a lot of people, you know? They, they, they want more than that.

I know we argue about Baltimore, but who can fix enough on time, you know? Could we get a bomb squad going? Uh, could our defense tighten up? Uh, could you guys, you know, do a five-penalty game, you know, and shock the world? Could you get parity at, at set pieces? And it all comes down to this, doesn't it?

Oh, okay

...

in the first half as why he's ...

Okay, well, Josh Morby scored two great tries, but I think that that missed tackle is one of those things.

Um, that's just my feeling in it.

Um, or whether Carter is better under the high ball because, you know, here's, here's the truth about the All Blacks' performance.

Our scrum, regardless of how you want to interpret it, was beaten.

Don't you see it that way, that that kinda middle of the All Blacks just was intelligent, quick, decisive, and put everyone else in good spots?

[laughs]

I'm not talking about the test match here.

I'm just talking about the tornado, the whirlwind, uh, when I hit that ground in Joburg.

I fly out tonight, New Zealand time, gentlemen.

Um, I'm so excited about this.

Look, like, like a typical man, I haven't done any packing yet.

Uh, that kinda happens as you throw things together, right, in the couple of hours before you leave for the airport.

How much is the Rennie effect and co?

Do you see the, the, uh, All Blacks being able to play a different way by this point, or is it just one way, locked and loaded, Dave Rennie, let's go?

I think all of us want and wish the All Blacks to be able to play more than one way.

Uh, you know, the run-and-gun style was the phrase, um, that was, you know, kind of emerged from those Three Nations Championship tests, didn't it? And one of the things, I had a list of 10 different sort of headlines that I've written after the first couple of games, and one of them is mindset.

Um, and, and with that I've got engage physically and be patient, and that is exactly what you're talking about.

Uh, and i- it's this, it's this thing about, uh, winning the collision, winning the ball, uh, using it judiciously, making the right decision at the right time, being patient, getting territory.

I think territory is just...

it just seems to be the most devalued concept in test rugby these days, but it's still the most simple way to win.

B+?

[laughs]

So look, yeah, it's, um, uh, you know, they're actually doing academic studies on it now, but I don't think we need that, do we? Uh, i- it's just, you know, all of us have watched sport for a long time.

I'm 62 years old.

I've been watching the All Blacks since 1975.

I'm married to football teams and NFL teams, uh, from the time I've been a child, and, and so these sports are big to me.

Um, football, NFL, rugby league, basketball especially if you watch any NBA.

International rugby.

Is it, is it a legitimate reason for staying behind? Is it a bit of a showing who's the boss, or what's really going on there? Or is, or are we reading too much into it?

Yeah

...

the spa pool and the bubbles.

I don't think just the water and us in it is exactly what Dave Rennie has at the moment.

I think that...

I don't think...

He says it's not the finished product, and I agree with that too, Harry.

How much of this, what Rassie's been up to, do you think is smoke and mirrors? How mu- how worried are you guys? You said you, you have a particular idea of, uh, each team who's gonna play, but is that really true? Are you expecting anything from Rassie, some, some sly trick, something new maybe? You know, a new bomb squad, uh, iteration or whatever?

Yeah

...

in English afterwards.

And so you could see there was real tension in the room between the French journalists and the French coach, Fabien.

There was real-- it was really testy.

And we were looking at body language and expressions, but you couldn't understand a word of it 'cause afterwards they refused to even translate a word.

However, with Italy, beautifully gracious, he insisted that the questions asked were in English, not Italian, and that they spoke...

Yeah

How do you feel about that result?

Oh, look, it was a really amazing, special occasion to be involved in that.

As a Wellingtonian born and bred, even though I've lived up in Auckland most of my life...

And a Hurricanes fan.

What you get when the Hurricanes are the number one seed, best team in the comp, scoring all the tries, dicking everyone by 50 points and playing in a final.

You add that, that, that, that, that, and you get disaster.

Because we're all just thinking that this is impending disaster coming.

Sometimes I look at them like you're only there for numbers, eh?

Yeah

...

the New Zealand flag.

Um, and so the family, he obviously knew, didn't tell, and so they're in front of the TV, and Grandad's sitting there up in his chair on the right, so he's probably sort of maybe a little hard of hearing, so he can hear it properly.

And the name's read out, and so he sees it for the first time as it comes out live on the telly.

And his reaction, I'm getting all choked up, his reaction is just as you would expect any father or grandfather when their son or grandson is named, uh, in a team like this.

And it's just raw, and it's pure, and it's joy, and it's happiness, and it's the fulfillment of a dream, and it's everything cool-

Yeah

Those, those are my areas where I would think, uh, Razor maybe was a bit too conservative and a bit maybe too predictable.

Okay.

Just remind me before, um, we finish this bit of the conversation about what Mike Blair said about the attack coach and how he thinks that we're going to play or what they, their idea is.

Uh, but you're bang on.

Look, let's start at the front with the big boys.

Uh, I think that we're okay for props at the moment, but Dave Rennie did say that we're one or two injuries away in several bits of the squad.

34 players to be named for the Nations Championship, 44 to be taken to South Africa for the Rugby tour.

He's gonna try and bash you and bash you until he scores.

he did he certainly he certainly did he didn't get the drawer but not many people did i would i would reckon uh it's just just the one podcast this week um i've got a bit of a thing on this week which meant i couldn't do the two hopefully we'll be back in a position to do both uh again next week but another wacky old weekend of super rugby mate so let's just get straight into here's cheese and you tell me that you tell me that you've got several here's cheese so this will be good

Yeah, look, you asked me for one, so what did I do? I came up with six.

There's a top six, and so I thought I'll have one for each one of the first six places, okay? And they're in no particular order, but they are nice and short.

The draw returned to winning ways to keep their dream alive.

I loved that result, just purely because it was 0-25 on the road.

They never went away from home, and they put in a hell of a performance.

Yeah.

And it was probably a bonus point loss that Moana didn't really deserve, I don't think.

Do you think you're going to have a coach soon, A? And B, do you have a good idea who it will be?

Ah, question one, yes.

Question two, yeah.

Look, the longer this goes on, and it's a bit like being in the jury room, isn't it? The longer you're in the jury room, they say there's a better chance that whoever it is is going to get off.

The longer that this goes on, I think more of us are leaning now towards Dave Rennie as opposed to the slam dunk that it was Jamie Joseph when the news first came out that Scott Robertson was... sacked from the job and you know the reason that a lot of us were thinking Jamie Joseph was just because he was in front of us when you get appointed to be and I'll never call it the All Blacks 15 the New Zealand 15 coach which is the coach in waiting and at the time I thought when that appointment was made and I was very vocal about it that that that was a shot across Razor's bow which was simply saying if you don't win the World Cup next year then this guy's ready to go and Jamie Joseph had you know previous international experience With Japan, he got them through to quarterfinals of a World Cup in 2019.

We know all of this.

He's back in the country.

But the one thing I worry about is discipline with Dave Rennie because his Wallaby teams were routinely pinged 12, 13, 14 times and he got lots of cards.

So why didn't that happen? Why didn't they just give him what they gave Ian Foster, what they gave other coaches to help him get to the 2027?

Yeah, it's a great question and one that a lot of us also are struggling to kind of find an answer to.

When he got the job, I think if you can pinpoint some mistakes, one of them is certainly not having that kind of experience around him.

His circle was really closed ship.

When Leo McDonald left was probably a warning sign.

When Jason Holland left, well, that was obviously something was going on there.

And of course, you know, the way that the Politburo New Zealand Rugby works, no one's saying anything.

What does that furore look like in the media?