And what sorts of things did you learn through working with Dr. Peters that really confirmed the reason behind what you were doing and why it was working?

Well, but in today's world, this is an important point for horse owners today, I think.

There's so much hype about desensitizing these horses and basically dumbing them down, to put it frankly, to the human's level.

We got so many first-time owners.

And I'm not saying they're dumb people.

Most of these people are way more smarter than I am, more educated than I am, but just not with horses.

I mean, I got doctors, lawyers, I mean, all kinds of really smart people, very successful business people coming to my clinics.

So...

Totally.

And at the same time, you haven't trained the cattle to go faster and get back into the herd.

Whether it's this one cow or the next 20 cows you work, the cattle stay softer.

Your horse becomes more agile, handier, and the day will come that this cow comes over here, and she's in a trot, and you're trotting your horse over here.

Cow gets ready to stop.

You just step your horse over a little bit.

He does a nice little rollback, trots out of it with the cow because it never was a, a, I won't say traumatic, but it wasn't a high-arousal situation for the horse or the cow.

Yeah

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But when he gets out of there, he's going to lick his lips and say, thank God I'm not there anymore.

That's the difference.

See, and my target is whether I'm roping on this horse or working this cow on this horse or anything challenging for this horse.

Or it could be a colt in a round corral like the babies last night.

Yeah.

You know, I try to get them to stay quiet.

You're the first person that I've ever heard say talk about training their cows.