But what does this relational view of impact change about the way researchers should approach their work? So maybe we can talk a little bit about that as well.

well.Yeah.

It puts the whole thing round the reverse way.

So it's not that I wait until I've finished my work and I've got the big ideas, uh, that I then try and find some kind of audience for those ideas.

I start by saying, "Who is that potential audience? Who are the people who have need? And now, how can I adapt my research to meet those needs?" And so you know from the outset, and where possible, with their input, you're building something that actually matters, and of course, that engenders trust.

And the research evidence is clear again and again, study after study.

There's more published this month that I'll be highlighting in, in my monthly newsletter.

So when does encouraging an impact culture become simply asking researchers perhaps to do one more thing again? And what should institutions stop doing if they genuinely want to create and support meaningful impact and also support their researchers with that endeavor?