And the reason I would say that is kind of what you're saying is like, I don't know, you know, in the mid 90s, there was a lot of, you know, like kind of power poppy 60s influence type of music that was being put out there, not really in the mainstream, of course, but, you know, in the underground, but there was no band that kind of encapsulated everything the Beatles did on their 13 records of over the course of 80 minutes on a record.

What's interesting in retrospect is that an album like Dusk was so sort of lauded despite everything you just said, because with other projects around that time, like Beachwood, for example, like, yes, it got some praise, but there was just as much pushback and negativity that it's like just retro futurism.

you know, a facsimile that's, you know, just dated and living in the past.

Dusk didn't really have that, and I think it is just the strength of the songs.

Like you said, it's sort of impossible to listen to it and just be like, well, it's, you know, it's kind of 60s inspired, but it's just so atmospheric and great.

even then in the 90s there there was still kind of a different mindset about drawing from those influences um being in my mid-30s uh you know i used to teach before i did freelance full-time and i would teach middle schooler and high schoolers and the ones that were really into music you would have fascinating conversations with them just about how that zeitgeist has shifted so Like what I was saying, and you all know this who are a little older, back then it was kind of hard to find that camaraderie, like in the punk era and coming out of the punk era.

Now the word psychedelic is like tossed around in complete ubiquity.

so Mark, I wanted to ask you just from, you know, you're such a great illustrator and I just love your art so much that, you know, Olivia Tremor Control has kind of created, there's such a visual element to it.

Plenty of jobs

through freelance work is, you know, through people seeing your work on there.

So, you know, that in itself is a dichotomy that, you know, you know, as well as I do with what you do.

It's sort of a slippery slope that you you kind of try to manage yourself.

as ethically as you can.

But every day is kind of a different beast with that.

But with the process being such sort of slow form and kind of the antithesis of that, it's very therapeutic.

Yeah, for