Yeah,

exactly.

We've gone all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court on this, and we've won some minor victories.

Uh-huh.

Ultimately, ultimately, union money is fungible.

So in one instance, they can use, you know, political money and they can use general treasury money to get out the vote, to register voters, to give out information publicly.

And that money that is used is part of the money that's collected from workers that would oppose it.

these unions were voted in 20 years ago, and the workers who they're representing, they never even voted for the leaders of the union.

Yeah,

exactly.

We've gone all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court on this, and we've won some minor victories.

Uh-huh.

But ultimately, ultimately, union money is fungible.

So in one instance, they can use political money and they can use general treasury money to get out the vote, to register voters, to give out information publicly.

And that money that is used is part of the money that's collected from workers that would oppose it.

these unions were voted in 20 years ago, and the workers who they're representing, they never even voted for the leaders of the union.

Mark, what do you say to Danny when you talk about that kind of impact? A regular person without a group like yours wouldn't be able to fight that fight, would they?

Yeah, and I won't.

I mean, suffice to say that the legal costs involved in that effort, when you had a jury trial and you went through that process The seven figures come with a couple of commas, so not decimal points, but commas.

So, yeah, it's something.

But, you know, ultimately, that case sets the table and establishes a precedent for other workers who would be similarly situated who can go back and say, hey, I want the same relief.

And frankly, you know, the case we won on behalf of all the government employees back in 2018, another case we probably talked about, Joe, I'm sure we have.

the Janice Biasmi case that came out of Illinois.

Are you going to tell me that the robber barons of the Industrial Revolution didn't deserve and cause in a lot of way the union movement? I mean, Mark, is this just the inevitable swing from, you know, one side being abusive to the other side?

and

actually I think it was a business that Penske actually acquired and it had a union in it and the workers there decided that the Teamsters weren't doing what the Teamsters alleged that they would do and help them in their workplace and represent them in a manner that would be favorable to those employees and literally, Joe, in this situation every single member of this unit, this Teamster union, voted to throw the union out.

And this wasn't the first case for Penske drivers.

This is probably the seventh or eighth case we've had on behalf of Penske employees across the country who have thrown the Teamsters out.

Yeah, we've had cases in, gosh, I think in two of them in Minnesota, one in Indiana, one in California.

There's been several, Dallas, Texas, Nashville, Tennessee, In New Jersey, and today, just today, our attorneys filed what's called a deauthorization petition for Penske employees in Allentown, Pennsylvania.

Now, deauthorization is a little bit different than decertification.

So talk about the team that you have that helps do all that, Mark.

And with your help, that is now the case.

Yeah, indeed, Joe, this is what's called a union decertification.

And you really rarely hear about this, but this is when employees gather together.

The employer cannot be involved at all.

can't help, can't engage in any kind of activity that would foment or foster this particular behavior by the employees.

But in this case, this is a Penske leasing operation in Virginia.

Literally every worker in the unit voted to throw the Teamsters union out.

veteran who was

[laughs] That's, that's my terminology, not yours, but I mean, oftentimes that's a big piece of it.

Well, it really is, and there are times when, uh, union thug is the proper description of what e- the powers that union officials have over workers in America.

And that, you know, Joe, we've talked about this before.

Labor policy goes back to the Roosevelt administration in the 1930s, and one of the dramatic changes in federal law was this power grab over private sector workers' rights.

And basically, they gave union officials dramatic powers and privileges over workers, and unfortunately, to this very day, we're still fighting, uh, that power.

And the good news is, is more and more employees across the country are, are raising up, and they're coming out and saying, "We need to change these rules, and if we can't change them, we need to exercise what limited rights we have." And we've been doing a lot of that, uh, here at the foundation since 1968, at the Right to Work Committee since 1955, and, uh, there's still a lot of work to do, Joe, that's for sure.

We don't want to be under their thumb." And with your help, that is now the case.

Yeah, indeed, uh, Joe, this is what's called a union decertification, and you really rarely hear about this, but this is when employees gather together.

Check it out.

The UAW in particular is not only investigation by, uh, Congress, but also a grand jury is looking into the actions of President Shawn Fain right now.

On July 26th, they announced that a grand jury had been formed to take a look at what Shawn Fain had been doing as president of the United Auto Workers union.

Of course, that union's already under a monitoring, uh, agreement with the federal government because of corruption and the fact that two of their international presidents have went to jail, uh, on criminal charges.

So there's a lot going on with the UAW.

But to your point about the politics, there is a dramatic and a growing disconnect between union officials like Shawn Fain and the members of the union that he claims to represent, and there's no better example than the 2024 presidential election.

Shawn Fain went on the stage at the Democratic National Convention and called Donald Trump a scab, called him a con man, and the UAW endorsed Kamala Harris.

Tell us more about that.

As someone who studies this intersection between workers, unions, and employers, what's your sense when it comes to the role that some of the larger unions play in endorsing candidates? Can UAW leaders genuinely speak for Michigan's rank-and-file autoworkers when they endorse candidates such as Abdul El-Sayed?

Well, that's a great question.

Good morning to you, and thanks for the opportunity to talk about this.

The UAW in particular is not only an investigation by Congress, but also a grand jury is looking into the actions of President Sean Fain right now.

On July 26th, they announced that a grand jury had been formed to take a look at what Sean Fain had been doing as president of the United Auto Workers Union.

Of course, that union is already under a monitoring agreement with the federal government because of corruption and the fact that two of their international presidents have went to jail on criminal charges.

So there's a lot going on with the UAW.

Tell us more about that.

What's the status of worker freedom in America today? That's something that I think a lot of news outlets are not covering.

Yeah, Matt, and you make an important point when you talk about the disconnect between union officials and rank-and-file workers.

So let's just go right to the basics.

We have basically 14.3 million government employees who are quote-unquote union members – excuse me, 7.3 million public employees that are union members and and 7.4 million American workers who are private sector union members.

And when we say members, one would think that they are willingly joining and willingly participating in organized labor.

And that fact is obviously not true.

But today in America, only 5.9% of the private sector workforce is represented or has union membership, the union density, if you will.

Why on earth has he hitched his wagon to this star?

What's the status of worker freedom in America today? That's something that I think a lot of news outlets are not covering.

Yeah, Matt, and you make an important point when you talk about the disconnect between union officials and rank and file workers.

So let's just go right to the basics.

You know, we have basically 14.3 million government employees who are, quote unquote, union members, excuse me, 7.3 million public employees that are union members.

And and 7.4 million American workers who are private sector union members.

And when we say members, one would think that they are willingly joining and willingly participating in organized labor.

And that fact is obviously not true.

Why on earth has he hitched his wagon to this star?

That doesn't mathematically equate to me, Mark.

Well, I think they got, like, what, $6 billion in a bailout, too, didn't they, that company? I think they did under the Biden administration.

But going back to this Harold Daggett guy just for a minute, Sean, because one of the stories that's gone unnoticed by anybody is this port system is controlled by the International Longshoremen's Association, the ILA, that guy you just heard as president.

But there was a new port built in the South Carolina Port Authority called the Leatherman Terminal.

It was the first terminal built in the last 10 years.

It was a billion-dollar investment.

In South Carolina, because it's a right-to-work state, they had employees that were not part of the union that were running the ship-to-shore cranes.

It's not even a Ponzi scheme has more credibility than the Illinois Democrats, the New York Democrats, the California Democrats, don't they?

Your thoughts.

Well, you're exactly right, Steve.

And the disconnect between the rank and file workers and the union leadership, and I'll use my finger quotes there because the leadership is way out of bounds when it comes to the views of most rank and file workers.

And I think Michigan's probably gonna be the best case study that the fact that the United Auto Workers ran out front line and endorse this guy, as they did the mayor of New York City, Mondani, just is mind boggling when it comes to the policies they're articulating.

And, you know, if union officials are honest about what they do, and they're oftentimes not, that they're out there to get the best deal for their workers.

You know, when you have a democratic socialist talking about universal health care and rent freeze and universal basic income and these types of policies that are just an anathema in a free market system like the United States of America, I mean, it's outrageous that they are able to take money from workers across the country and use it to support candidates like Mondani.

And now what I think they're going to do in a big way is support this El-Sayed here in Michigan in this Senate race.

And yes, as I have predicted on this show, the House, too, by a very slim margin.

And it would grow if they made it voluntary, but they refuse to do it because they want the power of the government.

Absolutely.

I'm glad you brought that up.

When we look at the economic data, I mean, the foremost issue for right to work is individual freedom and individual choice in the workplace.

I mean, that's the first primary kind of moral point about right to work.

But the economic story is getting better and better all the time.

As you mentioned, manufacturing jobs.

What is your, what is your take on that?

Where does that stand? What's the state of play with that?

Yeah, Bob.

Let me first answer your question about the government unions, because you, like Franklin Roosevelt, said there was no place in the public sector for unions.

And I believe that.

You believe that.

Franklin Roosevelt believed it.

So we're all on the same team here, Bob, when it came to government sector unionism.

Now tell us what a right-to-work state is and then tell us why they are benefiting from that stance.

Where does that stand? What's the state of play with that?

Yeah, Bob.

Let me first answer your question about the government unions, because you, like Franklin Roosevelt, said there was no place in the public sector for unions.

And I believe that.

You believe that.

Franklin Roosevelt believed it.

So we're all on the same team here, Bob, when it came to government sector unionism.

Now tell us what a right-to-work state is, and then tell us why they are benefiting from that stance.

Now, obviously, we've got a candidate in Michigan who is very tied to the unions, right? Abdul El-Sayed, tell us about that.

Yeah, well, first of all, he's a member, he's a union member of the SEIU, the AFT, the Writers Guild, and one other union, I think the American Association of University Professors.

He's been endorsed by the United Auto Workers Union, which is really, I mean, not quite as surprised as you might think.

People say, well, the auto workers, why would they support this guy? But the United Auto Workers is about 40% higher education graduate students right now, Jeff, believe it or not.

They don't build cars.

They get doctorate degrees in the California higher education system and a few other states.

The American Association of University Professors made their first national endorsement in 110 years by endorsing Al Saeed in Michigan.

Give us a little update on that.

The climate and the acceptance of the skim is across the aisle, isn't it?

Yeah, indeed.

There seems to be a lot more people in on this than we would like.

And, Sean, you know, so we had a Supreme Court case after this Blagojevich scheme, and then the Illinois legislature passed it as a statute after the executive order was struck down.

And they said that these home health care providers are, quote-unquote, government employees for one purpose and one purpose only, to pay union dues to the Service Employees International Union.

We took a mom who was taking care of her development and disabled son all the way from the district court all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

In 2014, the U.S. Supreme Court agreed with us in a case called Harris v. Quinn, Quinn being the replacement governor for the corrupt Blagojevich.

Other than that, their pensions for the actual worker, it's not any more spectacular than he could have done in a Vanguard 401k, is it?

There were potential nominees, and look, and I know why Trump loves the Teamsters, and he loves Sean, but maybe this shows, hey, we're going to take a little bit different tact when it comes to labor.

Yeah, and to your point, Bob, his first nominee, Lori Chavez-Durimer, who was a Republican congresswoman from Oregon, who was one of three Republicans that voted to repeal all the right-to-work laws across the country, all 26 of them, that basically simply say, look, you can choose whether or not you want to financially support a labor union, and you can still keep your job or get a job if you don't want to support them financially.

So that's a bigger issue in the context of this.

But when the president took Sean O'Brien's recommendation on Chavez-Durimer, He was doing a favor for O'Brien.

I mean, O'Brien went to Mar-a-Lago and said, this is the gal, you should do it.

He did it, and it was a complete embarrassment for the president.

She resigned under a cloud of investigation of just absolute chaos at the Department of Labor.

What do you want to see happen during the course of the Trump presidency?

Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.

Yeah, and to your point, Bob, his first nominee, Lori Chavez-Durimer, who was a Republican congresswoman from Oregon, who was one of three Republicans that voted to repeal all the right-to-work laws across the country, all 26 of them, that basically simply say, look, you can choose whether or not you want to financially support a labor union, and you can still keep your job or get a job if you don't want to support them financially.

So that's a bigger issue in the context of this.

But when the president took Sean O'Brien's recommendation on Chavez-Durimer...

He was doing a favor for O'Brien.

I mean, O'Brien went to Mar-a-Lago and said, this is the gal, you should do it.

He did it, and it was a complete embarrassment for the president.

What do you want to see happen during the course of the Trump presidency?

Now tell everybody what you did.

Yeah, Sean, this was a case that went on for nine years, and we finally got to the end of it on behalf of a Southwest Airlines flight attendant who had a unblemished employment record working for Southwest.

She loved the airline.

She loved Herb Kelleher and all the good things they were doing back then.

But she had a problem with what the union was doing with the money that she had to pay as a condition of keeping her job.

And the union turned around and spent money on a Planned Parenthood march in 2017 with the pink hats and all that stuff.And she sent a private message to the union official, the Transportation Worker Union Local 556 president, and said, "This is exactly why I support a right-to-work bill and why I shouldn't be forced to pay dues, because you're using my money for causes I don't believe in." And so this private conversation got a little more aggressive back and forth.

Finally, the union official went to the HR department at Southwest Airlines saying, "This lady is harassing me, and this is, this is the lady that I asked-

It's one thing when it's 1875 and nobody can figure out what feather bedding is, but that's all it is, is feather bedding.

So what's the latest with the National Right to Work Act that was introduced by Senator Rand Paul? What's going on with that?

Yeah, well, we're up to about 135 co-sponsors on the bill, House and Senate.

There was a hearing on Wednesday of this past week, and the issue came up because we were talking about a, quote, quote, labor law reform bill introduced by Josh Hawley that would give union officials, amazingly enough, more power over workers, which is really frustrating.

But they talked about the right to work law.

They talked about how this is the most simple labor law reform you can make.

And it's a one-page bill, Jeff.

Doesn't add a single word to federal law.

So update us on those things, Mark, if you could.