... theologically?

Yeah, that's a good question.

Well, the title of my book, in a way, gives, gives away some of it, and that's, uh, Breaking Babel.

I think the, the story of the Tower of Babel is suggestiveAnd interesting, the, uh, uh, Pope Leo's encyclical that was just, uh, put out last week, he starts, uh...

The, the opening sentence is, "We're either building a Tower of Babel or a new Jerusalem," and we're gonna have to figure that one out.

Well, I think it's pretty clear, um, that we're not opting for the new Jerusalem.

Uh, and if that's the case, we need to take this Babel story really seriously.

Yeah.

Yeah

... to do things.

Um-You know, like I just don't wanna quit smoking, right? At the, at the top of the mountain, um, you've got intrinsic, like pure intrinsic motivations.

You do these things because they're interesting, they're fun, you just enjoy it like you enjoy listening to a great podcast or, or a movie.

Um, so according to the theory that shall renamed unmentioned, [laughs] you can move up that mountain, you can move closer to the intrinsic end and maximize your chances for long-term change if you satisfy three basic psychological needs.

The first one is autonomy.

So i- the process really needs to start from within, right? Like if your spouse or partner or boss or doctor are like making you or like guilting you into doing something-

Tell me about your latest research.