
Mark McGrath
Owner and Partner at AGLX, a strategic orientation advisory firm, and co-host of the No Way Out podcast. Former US Marine Corps officer and former Vice President at Lazard Asset Management.
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Aug 8, 2026
Turtle Talk Podcast Episode 15: Inside the Loop — Uncertainty in War and the Markets (Part Two)
7:24
R
7:00RichHOST
So Moose, over to you, sort of in the military strategist camp, the idea of the ordinary force and the surprising forces everywhere, take us into how the unexpected move is what really decides a fight and where that surprise actually lives.

Mark McGrathGUEST
Boyd called it harnessing Sun Tzu, who Boyd said that Sun Tzu and the art of war, which every trader should read, every human should read, every human that's engaged with reality should read the art of war because it's about being in conflict, not necessarily in combat.
15 MINS LATER
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23:16RichHOST
So talk about the culminating point in the doctrine.