But, um, what can happen now? Like, can there be an appeal? Can it be quashed? Can it be reopened with a public inquiry? Or, or is the fine just permanent?

It's sort of down to, down to me now.

Um, we've had a look legally to see where I might stand, and there's an avenue, uh, to pursue.

Um, the risk is that, yeah, it might go well, uh, but it might not.

And, uh, it's just, you know, do I want to carry on, you know, and have another crack at another court case or, um, and, you know, and, you know, hopefully maybe that, that the case is sort of thrown out.

Uh, and or, you know, do I ...

We've come this far, do we just sort of get on with it and put that all behind us and, uh, and move on? So I, I, I did, I did make a comment to Ron the other day that, uh, you know, I think I'm just going to pause there and, um, just let it lie and, uh, and move forward.

So I've got a question: What was the hardest part of your SAS training? And I know that we spoke a lot about this in the episode, but is there, is there one specific part of the SAS training that was the hardest for you?

So talk us through that.

Yeah, so this particular time, I was taking 800,000 US up to one place.

And it's just cash.

It's a big duffel bag, about that big.

And I had the De Beers and country manager, Ken Kempson, with me, who I flatly stated to the rest of the security team that we shouldn't have had him there because he's a VIP person.

And he wasn't trained, et cetera.

And then Charlie was the in-country security manager.

So did you – you must have felt really hard done by the – By the fine and their ruling.

Yeah.

No, no, that's a good one.

You're trying to get across what others might feel.

But essentially, I reckon all New Zealanders have got that want to help.

So that flagged up straight away.

And We were just fortunate that we had helicopters and we could fly.

So, you know, we could burn across that 50 kilometres of water, get to the island really quick.

I mean, how did you deal with that when WorkSafe said we're going to investigate you and prosecute you?

How did you process what happened over, you know, the days and weeks that followed the incident? It

was a real mix of sort of emotions and what was happening.

You know, like very quickly you were sort of wrapped up in the thoughts that there was all these people that had gone off.

Then there was all these people that were still on the island, albeit they'd passed away, so that was conflicting.

Then we were straight away under investigation with the police, which was fine and understandable, but then we were sort of right up against this massive... body of people and organisations that came in and just felt like it started to stall and people were trying their best but the big wheel was turning and it just sort of morphed into something that wasn't to me, didn't feel like we were achieving any aim.

Everyone was really worried about risk and stuff like that so It was a real mix there.

There was a lot of people desperate to find out about their family members and no one was talking.

I mean, how did you deal with that when WorkSafe said, we're going to investigate you and prosecute you?

Yeah.

And, uh, anyway, I got overruled.

The security manager got overruled.

So we flew up there, jumped in two vehicles at the airport.

There was a Hilux and a Land Rover.

I was in the Land Rover.

Had a driver in front of me.

So what did you see, Mark?

What was the big trouble?

Uh, well, we...

I was taking 800 grand into a, a buying house up in Lucapa, and, uh, we, the, uh, De Beers in-country manager had come from London, and he wanted to visit the houses and talk to all the buyers.

And I was like, "No, no, no, we don't need him on board, you know, this is a problem." And, uh, anyway, I got overruled, the security manager got overruled.

So we flew up there, um, jumped in two vehicles at the airport.

There was a Hilux and a Land Rover.

I was in the Land Rover, had a driver in front of me.

What's the communication like, I'm interested, between you and the other people that are there? Is it calm? Are you forceful? Like, how does that play out?

But, um, what, what happened there?

Um, so yeah, so once I was in the New Zealand SAS, uh, uh, you know, I had an amazing time.

Incredible, uh, guys to, uh, uh, to, to operate with.

Um, did, um, you know, really good things, uh, and just polishing your trade, your profession, you know, um, for in the event that you might have been called upon for service, uh, elsewhere.

Um, obviously the government at the time wasn't interested in, you know, deploying the regiment and, uh, a few of my mates over the years had got out and joined the, uh, got out of the SAS and went across to the UK or the 22s, uh, Specialist Service and joined there.

And, uh, those guys were always in stashes, um, and going everywhere.

Um, so there's lots of stories going down, um, and, uh, being told between us all.

Uh, can you tell us a bit more about that one?

Yeah.

So, uh, landing on the island itself, I'd been there a number of times, but to s- to, to s- see it with the, the plume and the ash cloud, uh, rising above it, and then you could just see the whole, uh, crater just covered with a, like a smooth-looking appearance.

Um, yeah, it was eerie 'cause it's, like, different, you know, than you'd ever been to, uh, in the last 10 years.

So, um, touching down, it's just a massive cloud of dust, and then, uh, it wasn't, the reality of it wasn't, uh, or didn't strike you until you stepped out, like you opened the door, and then, you know, it was all quite benign inside the heli.

It was just...

And we left her running.

Um, opened the door and jumped out and, you know, went up to your, sort of halfway up your legs in ash and, uh...

Like, do you go and, is it therapy? Is it something like that that you get, or are you just a see, do action guy?

Yeah.

So, uh, landing on the island itself, I'd been there a number of times, but to s- to just see it with the, the plume and the ash cloud, uh, rising above it, and then you could just see the whole, uh, crater just covered with a, like a smooth-looking appearance, um, yeah, it was eerie 'cause it's, like, different, you know, than you'd ever been to, uh, in the last 10 years.

So, uh, touching down, it's just a massive cloud of dust, and then, uh, it wasn't, the reality of it wasn't, uh, or didn't strike you until you stepped out, like you opened the door, and then, you know, it was all quite benign inside the heli.

It was just, and we left her running.

Um, opened the door and jumped out and, you know, went up to your, sort of halfway up your legs in ash and, uh...

But then when I took a few breaths, it was, like, super gnarly.

Is it therapy? Is it something like that that you get, or are you just a see, do action guy?

Yeah, I reckon, uh, I'm a see, do guy.

Where did that come from? Where does that come from? Is that your NZSAS training and experience kicking in?

There's a bit of that.

It's probably quite a bit of that.

But, you know, you're, you should have shaped up, or I've been shaped up from the beginning, you know, as I was growing up.

There's lots of different things you experience, and I think, you know, once you sort of get into trouble, get out of trouble, you sort of, you know, start to round out a little bit, and you can sort of handle things a little bit differently when you're first either scared or firstly, you know, a bit of blood or break a leg or some wins and losses, and some of that went through into the regiment, and You know, you're under lots of pressure with training.

So lots of things go on.

So that just sort of like starts to polish that up.

What was that like? Oh,

Where did that come from? Where does that come from? Is that your NZSAS training and experience kicking in?

There's a bit of that.

It's probably quite a bit of that.

But, you know, you're sort of shaped up or I've been shaped up.

from the beginning, you know, as I was growing up, there's lots of different things you experience.

And I think, you know, once you sort of get into trouble, get out of trouble, you sort of, you know, start to round out a little bit and you can sort of handle things a little bit differently when you're first either scared or firstly, you know, a bit of blood or break a leg or some wins and losses.

And some of that went through into the regiment.

What was that like?