How's sort of AI being perceived across, you know, talent in different areas? Do they see it the sort of way we're sort of looking at it and seeing it in the UK or is there a different sort of viewpoint that some people have?

I think one of the things that you've noticed, and it's not just within Mars, is every recruiter knows the pain now of they post a role and they see, I'm a dream candidate, like this could not be better.

So the struggle that I think everyone is facing within recruitment now is, You can utilize AI for making sure your job description is maybe a bit more punchy for like the Brazil market.

That's brilliant.

That's a good tool.

But then we're still encountering the same problem where everyone's, you know, if you're in technology, you understand AI.

So now we've got the fundamentals where we're utilizing AI to make our job look a bit better, make it look more punchy.

So they've got, I assume, more time to put into... conversations or networking you know sourcing whatever it may be how have you seen that sort of shift from the way you were doing things to the benefits you're seeing from from where ai is coming to your processes

What did you do to create that longevity, do you think?

It's a really good question, Mark, because actually I don't really know other than being myself.

I think what I what I I got to a point where I in that first year, I really wasn't enjoying it.

And I was thinking, I've just got to do a year.

I've got to do a year.

And because of the CV is going to look crap.

and i saw so i literally pushed myself through that year working really long hours trying to understand the business trying to change the business trying to build teams hiring and fun enough at the end of that year the management there's some management changes um came in and a guy called dennis woodside came in as the uk boss um and also together we hired matt britain and matt britain who later became you know president of emir and my boss but we were working side by side he he he was then running the client side and the teams and i was running set up the agency team and and that suddenly gave me a breather from not directly reporting into yeah nikesh who was just brutal just as an example how do i break through these things was every the sun the monday sales meetings i mean you know you'll you'll turn gray at this thought but the Nikesh would ask the sales finance guy how many clients have we persuaded to go direct this week or maybe as monthly meetings yeah as in how we how many clients we persuaded to sack their agency and come direct I'm going What the hell, Nikesh? You've employed me to run this UK business and set up agency sales as well as start to try and build up the client sales team.

so bringing us a bit more up to date now um you talked about in the last couple of years you talked about your retirement as being hard hard decision and you know quite an emotional like yeah you know you've got to that point just tell us about how you sort of got to that like when was the moment you were like okay i think you know

Do you feel like you saw that kind of back in the organization with the success that they had?

It's a start to it.

And, you know, I think for me, especially near the end of the year, I had a tough year with a few things.

I had a surgery and couldn't be around much.

But just to be around the stadium in March and April at the end of the year, the team had already gotten on the run and I was able to join.

Actually, it's the first time in, I would say, probably 15 years where I actually went to games and I was a fan.

Actually, one of the games I scored in overtime, I actually jumped in the air.

Do you ever have that feeling where you want to be back out there?

[laughs]

And that was his, that was his way of saying, "Okay, you realize what you did last night is not acceptable, and you learned the reason why." So yeah, so that, but that's how I learned, uh, you know, learned my lessons from, uh, you know, from, from my dad mostly.

My mom was a little more direct.

Uh, but that had, that had more to do with life lessons, not so much, uh, playing hockey.

But, um, but the door were al- was always open.

I used to ask, uh, the odd time.

Um, I remember playing with the Marlies, uh, the one year in Toronto, um, and I, and I was playing really well.

Oh my God