Um, but where do you see other support coming from? Where do we get the confidence back in the industry? Is it from these, um, departments we were speaking about, these aggregated pipelines?

Yeah.

And so I, I think, um, um, I'm very clear that the biggest role for government in trying to drive positive change in our industry is, uh, to have a demand-led policy and intervention strategy.

I, you know, what is very clear is that, that subsidizing businesses, propping up businesses, even giving businesses working capital support can be a false benefit.

It can create zombie companies that basically are just not sustainable and are only being propped up by external support.

That is not good news and it's certainly not good news for the UK taxpayer.

And some of that happened actually, um, in the last cycle.

So just maybe elaborate on that.

What did you mean by that?

So I suppose I was alluding to the fact that our industry, for lots of reasons we've already discussed actually in this conversation around the sort of pressures of doing the day job and running businesses, et cetera, and the way that we've structured ourselves and et cetera, et cetera, is very much in a...

How would I say this? In a box ticking mentality.

So the idea of you have to do something is seen as an obstacle.

It's seen as that's an obstacle we've got to clear and then we get on and we do it.

As opposed to what's the right thing to do? How do we improve ourselves? How do we address productivity and waste reduction? How do we make sure that we're going to get it right first time so that we can prove that we're safe a bit and we can win more work? everyone's in, right, let's just get over that hurdle and then we can get on to doing the work that we've always been doing.

And I fear that the way the building safety at is currently configured and a lot of it's still to play for.

How do we drive that one third either into the middle so they become compliant or out of the industry altogether? Because at the moment, just final point there, because at the moment, the companies in this area or these two thirds lose work to this one third.