And then you made the big thing and then going back to making something relatively small like mostly make yourself versus a bigger team like what did you take away from that that you then like now having worked on a much bigger thing that you can bring to working on something smaller because I think that's I think it is a little bit rare for devs to go from working on something the scope of real world commercially to immediately something or feels like immediately you know relatively smaller so

yeah I mean I wasn't building it to have a game that I could really just sell like it wasn't like it wasn't like, Ooh, what if I made more money? Um, it was just like, I want to do this.

I wanted to do it as an escape.

Um, you know, cause it can be frustrating like working on a big project with lots of people and, um, you know, lots of people that are specializing in different things that you have no experience in.

So, uh, you know, it can be like, paralyzing at times.

Well, not paralyzing, but things move slower than I'm used to being a solo dev or coming from that world.

So to do something, oftentimes it involves some kind of a meeting, whether you call it a meeting or just a lot of talking and trying things out with other people, which is fun.

Oh, very cool.

Is there a way to escape that, or I'm stuck there to survive as long as I can?

Yeah, we call them arenas, I guess, because there is no escape, but they all have a different gimmick.

The one you were in was our biggest.

It's just a huge space that you, over time, get to... become more familiar with.

But there's other ones that are a little bit more condensed.

They'll wrap in different ways, like looping.

Some levels have blocks you'll dig through, so it's sort of a mining component where you're traveling up to the surface and then digging further down.

Who did the music? Music was very intense, and I love that it kept me going, and I noticed a change a bit, too, while I was furthering the game.

... working on it

... we have another project going on that I can't talk about, but, um, but yeah, I'll probably be doing some edits bas- We have a demo coming...

Uh, the demo just launched today on Steam, so you can play it now, uh, s- part of it.

And, uh, you know, I assume based on response to that I'll tweak things and whatever.

Yeah.

[laughs]

I mean, you know, people...

Yeah, you try to, you try to put yourself in their shoes, and, like, what did they experience that made them say that? Um, you know, and how can you...