It transcends borders, right? So what is, what i- what's even the point of being a patriot as a Christian when you belong to the global church of Jesus Christ?

Yeah, so g- government starts with God.

The first government is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Serving with them is what the Bible calls the Divine Council.

This is, you know, literally meetings that are like cabinet meetings in heaven.

You can read about it in the Bible.

And then you've got an army.

if our nation kills 60 million people and doesn't wanna stop there, for example? What do we do?

I suppose all of that might lead to a really, before we can expound on that, there's probably like a cost of entry question, which is, What is the right role of the pastor in engaging with the politics of the world, particularly publicly, particularly with this congregation?

Yeah, so there has been a predominance, I'm sure you're familiar with it, of something called third way evangelicalism.

And that is there's the right and there's the left.

And the pastor and the church's job is to find a third way in the middle and try and be a mediator, a peacemaker, a bridge builder between the two.

To me, it's like, well, everybody who's ever, every guy I've ever met who rides the fence chafes his crotch.

I mean, that's not a favorable outcome.

And then the problem, there are a multitude of problems with this ideology.

Hmm.

[laughing]

And, uh, probably shouldn't have said that.

But anyways, uh, it's the White House.

And so that's called the Resolute Desk, and the Resolute Desk is where the president sits and makes decisions that affect all of us.

To use the language of the Bible, if we were to call this what the Bible calls it, the Bible would call this a throne.

A throne is where a king sits, and there are various thrones where various leaders sit, and they have authority, and they make decisions that affect everyone who is under their oversight.

The Bible speaks of the throne around 200-plus times.

Yes.

Uh, where is the spiritual realm in this? Like, what, what are, what are the, the, the spiritual battles that, that are part of everything you just outlined there?

Yeah, so I use the language of new days, old demons.

And so the storyline of the Bible is that in addition to human beings, there are divine beings.

Some are angels and serve God.

Some are demons, and they're anti-Christ.

And so when you see the same thing happening in different nations and generations and cultures, the question is, well, what is the consistent variable? Well, oftentimes it is spiritual, that the demon that was at work in one day is also at work in our day.

So I'll give you an example.

... is that a part of your timeline?

And so there can be really forceful good things when people of power grab hold of the Scr- of the gospel and step into this new thing that God is doing.

Yeah.

And, uh, we talked about it at launch, Jesus uses this little parable that new wine needs to go into new wine skins.

You can't put new wine into old wine skins.

And in context what he's saying is when there's a new move of God, when there's a new movement of the Holy Spirit, it's like new wine.

It's still fermenting and bubbling and it's explosive and it's not stable.

And that's what happens when there is a revival.

Shepherd them.

Otherwise, it's gonna end up in destructive places with deceivers.

deceivers.Yeah. And there's guys like, you know, I mean, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, uh, you mentioned Andrew Tate, there's the red pill community.

There's this resurgent interest in it, especially around the election, it, it really surged with kind of the, the tech bros and the alpha male, you know, um, Avengers team that Trump assembled.

But at the end of the day, the question is, what is a man supposed to act like, speak like, be like? And the good news is, we have the perfect example in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

He is perfectly tough, he's perfectly tender, he knows when to punch religious people and the government in the mouth, and he knows when to hug and embrace and bless women and children.

And so only in Jesus do we get a portrait of the man, uh, that other men should aspire to.

And so that's the whole point in the book, I'm answering the big questions about, you know, h- how did we know Jesus is coming? And how does the Bible reveal him as tough and tender? And, and exactly how tough was he to endure crucifixion? When you understand what we celebrate on Good Friday, that's as tough as you can be.

Mm-hmm.