Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah, [laughs] and for them to both be in it is just, it's just fascinating, right? And so I think that that's, that's...

That to me is amazing.

And I think it just makes for a great story of, uh, you know, here's two quarterbacks both drafted, what, third overall, uh, in their draft class respectively.

I think that's uniquely interesting.

But also, uh, it shows you, t- to me when we watch the games this weekend and you kind of dissect them now over a day or two, uh, as good as Seattle's defense is, it shows you how unbelievable the Rams were moving the ball and just could, just wh- it, it was...

I just feel like in playoffs we're getting away from understanding the importance of banking points, whether it's field goals, touchdowns, whatever it is, and these decisions are end up costing team wins.

Like, what are you looking for in that time frame that says, OK, this gentleman definitely is the guy that's going to run my organization?

You know, there's lots of situations you'll put them through.

You'll talk to them about situational football outside of the game.

You'll certainly talk to them a lot about, you know, their overall fundamentals of what they believe in, what's their philosophy, who are the coaches that they know they can get or think they can get, and how much of the staff can they put together.

But a big part of it is just letting them – they don't have a ton of time to actually evaluate your teams.

So you can't just sit there and go, well, tell me about my team and how it looks because these guys are running around too.

And so it's more about just the feeling you get.

Brown, and I'm wondering, Mark, how you would handle that situation and how you think Howie is handling that situation.

Like, what are you looking for in that time frame that says, OK, this gentleman definitely is the guy that's going to run my organization?

You know, there's lots of situations you'll put them through.

You'll talk to them about situational football outside of the game.

You'll certainly talk to them a lot about their overall fundamentals of what they believe in, what's their philosophy, who are the coaches that they know they can get or think they can get, and how much of the staff can they put together.

But a big part of it is just letting them – So you can't just sit there and go, well, tell me about my team and how it looks because these guys are running around too.

And so it's more about just the feeling you get.

Does the person motivate you? Do you see what they stand for, what they believe in, and do you have that same fundamental belief? And then you spend as much time in that coach's interview as you do trying to be on the phone around that coach, trying to understand the people that have been around that coach, what you've been like from players, coordinators, assistants, and then also the success.

Brown, and I'm wondering, Mark, how you would handle that situation and how you think Howie is handling that situation.

Yeah

... how could you possibly put him back out there when he's already missed a kick in these conditions, and why would you think he's gonna make it when you've got the MVP Josh Allen, who could just make a throw and probably win the game for a two-point conversion? So I, I, I just think the biggest thing in Buffalo is to watch their, their personnel transactions this week of what are they going to do at the kicker position, because there's got to be zero confidence in that building that Bagley can get it done and, and be their kicker throughout the entire postseason when we know it is going to come down to a kick at some point in one of these games, and they've gotta be able to trot a guy out there that they trust.

So be...

Watching the Buffalo Bills, watching what they do specifically today and tomorrow at that position of who they can bring in or what they think they can do to make a change at that position is going to be the big thing.

But I understand.

You're...

I mean, look, uh, this was a heartbreaking loss.

But where do you stand on Philly and their prospects of getting back to the Super Bowl?

Do you think the Bills care about where they finish when it comes to fifth, sixth or seventh, or do you think they care about Josh Allen and their best players being healthy, and they could, in fact, rest everybody against the lowly Jets next week?

No, I think, I think it's more about, you know, getting people healthy.

I think they see and they know they've got the talent there, so when they're on, they're on.

And I know, Carlo, it's like, you know, I'm tired, like, I...

You know, you said, like, I'm tired of s- the same old show.

I s- I feel like every year it's the same dance.

You know, and it looks like, to me, you know, there's a lot of momentum in Baltimore again for this.

But where do you stand on Philly and their prospects of getting back to the Super Bowl?

Is it too much for him to carry the team as a passer?

It feels like it right now, right? I mean, Mi- Mike McDonald obviously is a great defensive coordinator that's done a great job as a head coach down in Seattle in getting them in position of the postseason.

And they missed that.

He was, you know, he's brilliantly smart.

And so, they missed that defensive side of the ball where maybe the talent's not to the level we've seen in the Ravens before, but they were technically on top of everything.

Offensively, the frustrating thing for me when I watch the Ravens, and I'm sure Ravens fans feel, they could have run the ball last night.

Like, they were running the ball perfectly fine.

That being, that being said, um, what does it say, w- what does Joe Burrow playing despite the very, very slight chance of making the playoffs say about Burrow and, uh, and, and how we view him?

Is it too much for him to carry the team as a passer?

passer?It feels like it right now, right? I mean, M- Mike McDonald obviously is a great defensive coordinator, has done a great job as a head coach down in Seattle in getting them in position of the postseason, and they miss that.

He was...

You know, he's brilliantly smart, and so they miss that defensive side of the ball where maybe the talent's not to the level we've seen the Ravens before, but they were technically on top of everything.

Offensively, the frustrating thing for me when I watch the Ravens, and I'm sure Ravens fans too, they could have run the ball last night.

Like, they were running the ball perfectly fine, they just couldn't stick with it.

But, uh, you know, if they can just find a way to get back to Derrick Henry and giving him the ball 20 plus times a game, I think that even if they fall behind 10 or 12 or 13 points, I think you still wanna focus on Derrick Henry getting the ball because that, to me, is your, your ticket to finding a way to still win the North, which again, is wide open.

What does Joe Burrow playing despite the very, very slight chance of making the playoffs say about Burrow and h- and, and how we view him?

Is it too much for him to carry the team as a passer?

passer?It feels like it right now, right? I mean, M- Mike McDonald obviously is a great defensive coordinator, has done a great job as a head coach down in Seattle in getting them in position of the postseason, and they miss that.

He was...

You know, he's brilliantly smart, and so they miss that defensive side of the ball where maybe the talent's not to the level we've seen the Ravens before, but they were technically on top of everything.

Offensively, the frustrating thing for me when I watch the Ravens, and I'm sure Ravens fans too, they could have run the ball last night.

Like, they were running the ball perfectly fine, they just couldn't stick with it.

But, but, you know, if they can just find a way to get back to Derrick Henry and giving him the ball 20 plus times a game, I think that even if they fall behind 10 or 12 or 13 points, I think you still wanna focus on Derrick Henry getting the ball because that, to me, is your, your ticket to finding a way to still win the North, which again, is wide open.

W- what does Joe Burrow playing despite the very, very slight chance of making the playoffs say about Burrow and h- and, and how we view him?

Is it too much for him to carry the team as a passer?

It feels like it right now, right? I mean, M- Mike McDonald obviously was a great defensive coordinator, has done a great job as a head coach down in Seattle and getting them in position of the postseason, and they miss that.

He was...

You know, he's brilliantly smart, and so they miss that defensive side of the ball where maybe the talent's not to the level we've seen the Ravens before, but they were technically on top of everything.

Offensively, the frustrating thing for me when I watch the Ravens, and I'm sure Ravens fans too, they could have run the ball last night.

Like, they were running the ball perfectly fine.

They just couldn't stick with it.

W- what does Joe Burrow playing despite the very, very slight chance of making the playoffs say about Burrow and h- and, and how we view him?

Is it too much for him to carry the team as a passer?

It feels like it right now, right? I mean, Mi- Mike McDonald obviously is a great defensive coordinator, he's done a great job as a head coach down in Seattle in getting them in position of the postseason, and they missed that.

He was, you know, he's brilliantly smart, and so they missed that defensive side of the ball where maybe the talent's not to the level we've seen of the Ravens before, but they were technically on top of everything.

Offensively, the frustrating thing for me when I watched the Ravens, and I'm sure Raven fans too, they could have run the ball last night.

Like, they were running the ball perfectly fine, they just couldn't stick with it.

But at that, you know, if they can just find a way to get back to Derrick Henry and giving him the ball 20 plus times a game, I think that even if they fall behind 10 or 12 or 13 points, I think you still wanna focus on Derrick Henry getting the ball because that, to me, is your, your ticket to finding a way to still win the north, which again, is wide open.

And even the Bengals, as hard as it's, um, to imagine and so late, you're only a few games out now, you know.

That being, that being said, um, what does it say, w- what does Joe Burrow playing despite the very, very slight chance of making the playoffs say about Burrow and he, a- and, and how we view him?

Is it too much for him to carry the team as a passer?

It feels like it right now, right? I mean, M- Mike McDonald obviously is a great defensive coordinator, has done a great job as the head coach down in Seattle and getting them in position of the postseason, and they miss that.

He was, you know, he's brilliantly smart, and so they miss that defensive side of the ball where maybe the talent's not to the level we've seen the Ravens before, but they were technically on top of everything.

Offensively, the frustrating thing for me when I watch the Ravens, and I'm sure Ravens fans too, they could have run the ball last night.

Like, they were running the ball perfectly fine.

They just couldn't stick with it.

But, uh, uh, you know, if they can just find a way to get back to Derrick Henry and giving him the ball 20 plus times a game, I think that even if they fall behind 10 or 12 or 13 points, I think you still wanna focus on Derrick Henry getting the ball because that to me is your, your ticket to finding a way to still win the North, which again, is wide open.

What does Joe Burrow playing despite the very, very slight chance of making the playoffs say about Burrow and he, a- and, and how we view him?

Um, what have you heard in regards to how they feel like he's doing with the new system in Chicago?

Chicago?...

but they're going to...

The- there's not much they can say but, but they're hopeful, like they think that things are going to go well.

Obviously, it sounds like the starters are playing again this week, and that Caleb's going to get out there and, and show what he can do.

Uh, you know, we'll, we'll know, Doug...

I know it's hard, you know, watching a practice, uh, you know, m- m- you know, saying things.

What do you think the details actually look like in terms of this extension for a guy who has back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons?

Um, what have you heard in regards to how they feel like he's doing with the new system in Chicago?

Well, they're going to... they're... there's not much they can say, but they're hopeful, like they think that things are going to go well.

Obviously, it sounds like the starters are playing again this week, and that Caleb's going to get out there and, and show what he can do.

Uh, you know, we'll, we'll know...

Doug, I know it's hard, you know, watching a practice, uh, you know, you know, saying things, it hasn't been the best of press conferences.

You haven't heard the Jaden Daniels like, "Wow, look at how hard he's worked and he's put all this effort in." It's just kind of like, okay, you know, we got to figure out what we can do with this guy.

You know, this is a make or break year.

W- what do you think the details actually look like in terms of this extension for a guy who has back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons?

Um, at what point do the Colts just chalk it up to an L and say, "Let's, let's move on?"

It's hard, right? Uh, Chris Ballard has been the GM there for many years, and I think the Colts have had a new starter every year since he's been the general manager.

That's a really, really hard position to be in.

And with Richardson, you know, uh, it's easy to, you know, have the hindsight, but we all talked about it when the draft was coming around.

Here's a guy that's, you know, played a little bit at Florida, has had inconsistencies while he's there, he's had injury history that continues to mount.

Uh, you know, it's...

And then they wanna do everything they can.

Do, do you see a change in the running back market?

That the Cleveland Browns want to see Shedeur fail.

No one wants their guy up to fail.

I mean, there's...

I- internally as an organization, the last thing you're ever going to do is like, "I can't wait to get this guy out there so he falls on his face." Like, no one thinks that way, especially with a draft pick.

And I know it's Shedeur Sanders and people are like, "Oh, this is..." You know? Look, they, they already drafted a quarterback and they traded up to make sure they got the next quarterback.

They, they want him to be successful, desperately.

The problem is what you said, that there's been a lot of injuries and he's found a way to get healthier faster than all the other guys.

Do you like what they put in place if this is just a one-year run to try and, you know, take a shot at the Super Bowl?

I, I, I like it.

I don't love it.

Uh, there's a couple things that really make me nervous about the Steelers.

Number one, um, and I hate to say it, but, you know, Broderick Jones, their first-rounder back in 2023, is going to have to carry a lot of weight.

Meaning, you know, he has been up and down when he's been on the field.

Uh, and I'm worried that Aaron Rodgers is gonna feel a lot of pressure from the left side.

Uh, a couple years into being a starter, where are you on Jordan Love?

... that they had to part ways with that they were really kind of over anyway, and this just allowed them to do so?

Well, I think Deebo...

I agree with you.

I think Deebo was give or take basically, because Deebo's frustrations sometimes.

Uh, we've talked about how I, I feel very strong about what Ricky Pearsall's gonna do.

I think Dre Greenlaw was one they didn't wanna let go.

I think that one hurt.

(laughs) Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, so, you know, Kenny Pickett, uh, I think is, you know, probably just gonna get an opportunity.

I, I think that what's, what's gonna happen is Joe Flacco's gonna be the one that probably doesn't see as much pre-season work, doesn't see...

He'll still get to work, but they don't need to see a lot out of Joe Flacco, I don't think.

They need to find out these young three, to see if they like any of them more than the other.

And this will be a chance for Shedeur, same with Dillon and Kenny Pickett.

I think that they're gonna spread it around.

W- what's the conversation like between GM and, and starting quarterback?

Yeah, it's great to have you here too, and thanks for saying so. We are really excited to be back there. Listen, let me start right here. Before we get into the current topics, I had Hall of Famer Rondé Barber on my podcast this week, and we talked about those great Bucs teams that you won a Super Bowl ring with. When you think back on those defenses, for instance, they had featured John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, and others, what kind of thoughts do you have? And then secondarily, when you've got that many alphas and strong personalities in a locker room, who runs that locker room?

(laughs) Yeah, good, good questions. Um, Warren Sapp ran that locker room. There's no debate about that. Uh, h- he was the one. I mean, everybody kind of knew how to handle Warren or what to do with Warren, but, you know, he was kind of the guy that really kind of stirred everybody's pot a little bit, including Simeon Rice. You know, uh, looking back at that team, you know, everybody likes to talk about the 2000 Ravens, but, but the defense that, that we put together as an organization back in 2002 with the players we had was special. It was... We had guys that were coming out to four Hall of Famers. It was a great unit and, uh, you know, they really worked well together. And they came under, you know, with Monte Kiffin and what Monte Kiffin was able to do in this league. And I know he passed this last year, but certainly, Monte Kiffin is one of the greatest defensive coordinators in the National Football League, and we were very fortunate to have them there in Tampa. A good story, Jim, on Rondé Barber, and kind of ties it, t- into the draft. I talk to young guys all the time about what the draft means, and, uh, you know, getting drafted higher means, of course, more money. We all know that. But the m- higher you get drafted in the draft, first round, second round, or third round, the more chances you can make a mistake and still stay on the team to kind of figure it out. Rondé Barber was a third-round draft choice his rookie year and was terrible. I mean, he was bad. Like, we all sat there, we're like, "Oh, you know, let's give him another year because he's a third." If Rondé Barber went to the fifth, or sixth, or seventh, we probably would have cut him and maybe put him on the practice squad or somewhere else. But he goes to the offseason, he fights through everything, and he starts 200 consecutive games at cornerback. It just shows you, it doesn't matter who just goes in the first round, it's where you go in the draft.

All right, so if teams look at Sam Darnold and think, "Good, I think," what do teams think when they look at Aaron Rodgers right now, and then what does the market look like for him?

Yeah, you know what? I, all the whispers are the, the, the Giants really wanted Matt Stafford to get out of LA, and were really hoping s- that was going to happen, and that, you know, maybe, you know, that they would be able to pull him in there and then make the trade for Matt Stafford as you've probably reported and heard as well. It does feel like Aaron Rodgers is a real possibility at the Giants. Uh, that's kind of what the sense you're getting. The Giants are sitting in a weird spot. They're picking number three. The unique thing is the two, you know, non-quarterbacks that are in this draft class, Henry and obviously Abdul Carter, are elite, elite players, elite, elite prospects, best of best. N- really can't figure out any way they're going to fail unless injuries take them over. Those guys are fantastic football players across the board, would be in almost every draft class. I mean, you just talked about Micah Parsons. Abdul Carter is a better player right now than Micah Parsons was coming out of college, so it just tells you what I think he can become. That being said, the Giants are really scared it goes quarterback-quarterback, and now they're sitting there going, "What are we going to do?" And so that's why I think Aaron Rodgers still has another year or two in the tank. In my personal opinion, watching his tape, I thought he played a bit, a little bit better down the stretch, threw the ball around, and I think the Giants have some weapons there that I don't think people appreciate enough. So I think there's a chance that the Giants does end up to be the f- the resting spot for Aaron Rodgers.