Can you just tell us the basic story of him and this project?

So Ferrer came... from a large, relatively middling family from Catalonia.

He was a 13th of 14 children.

He came from a conservative Catholic family where his local educational experiences were oppressive and violent, and as he saw it, filled with superstition.

So he had very little in the way of formal education.

What he did have, he hated.

He eventually got a job in the city in Barcelona where his employer was a Republican.

If you could talk a little bit also about these other anarchist pedagogues and the kind of network that they were in.

900 episodes so Outlander's

We have three characters who are living their day-to-day lives in 1960s America, right around the time of the Kennedy assassination set in Dallas, Texas.

One of them has a dead-end job, dreams of escapism.

You can very much say he is the audience's interpretation of the series, you know, like Rose was for us or Martha or whoever, you know.

And he's got a very overbearing father.

He wants to get away.

He's got a dead-end job.

What were the, other than, like, the budgetary and, like, logistical constraints... what were the highs and lows of the production for you?

there was production value in your trailer that I wasn't expecting to see.

Well, thank you.

Yes.

And, and I think you touched on something that's, that's really, um, true and important, and that is that, um, fan films do have a bad reputation.

Um, I think it's because the, the term fan film is so broad.

Uh, we just touched on the idea that there are fan films out there of me when I was eight running around on a camera that was probably filmed- It probably had the pixel quality of a potato, you know, sort of thing.

And, and as you said, you've seen the trailer for Outlander, and there are, there are many other fan films out there, not necessarily Doctor Who, but some people do incredible fan films out there.

Um, my th- next one is, well, what is the best case scenario with Outlander? It's released, and it has a, a run of, uh, how many episodes?

And I do wonder, though, when you're kind of seeing some of these discussions around the charges and then talk about, you know, what are violent actions? What are actions that incite violence? How far is too far when people are expressing themselves? Can you try to clarify for us what is the role of violence or not non-peaceful, you know, like advocating for non-peaceful essentially protest when they believe that it's needed? Can you describe how that can be traced to Antifa or Antifa in any way?

Well, it is true that throughout the history of anti-fascism, if we look at opposing the Nazis during World War II, quite a bit of violence was used.

Subsequently, there have been instances where Antifa groups have used different forms of confrontation to stop the organizing of neo-Nazis and skinheads and Klansmen.

You see, what we're talking about here is people organizing as part of the most robust American social movement we've seen since Black Lives Matter that has inspired the world and shown that the American people are largely not on board with what Trump's doing.

So it's really trying to take...

The kernel of truth in the fact that sometimes Antifa groups will use violent means to oppose the far right and transpose this into this imagined broader terrorist conspiracy and then take really kind of standard direct action forms of resistance being practiced by trade unionists and activists on the street in Minnesota and conflate that with this concocted criminal terrorist conspiracy.

So it's you can see how there's a long twisted web of misguided conflation to get from Antifa to these charges.

And what are you going to be watching for, Professor, as we head into the election, you know, the thick of this election cycle and the midterm election? Do you see that this is becoming an increasing talking point, you know, down the ticket, so to speak, or down the ballot?

And I do wonder, though, when you're kind of seeing some of these discussions around the charges and then talk about, you know, what are violent actions? What are actions that incite violence? How far is too far when people are expressing themselves? Can you try to clarify for us what is the role of violence or not non-peaceful, you know, like advocating for non-peaceful essentially protest when they believe that it's needed? Can you describe how that can be traced to Antifa or Antifa in any way?

Well, it is true that throughout the history of anti-fascism, if we look at opposing the Nazis during World War II, quite a bit of violence was used.

Subsequently, there have been instances where Antifa groups have used different forms of confrontation to stop the organizing of neo-Nazis and skinheads and Klansmen.

You see, what we're talking about here is people organizing as part of the most robust American social movement we've seen since Black Lives Matter that has inspired the world and shown that the American people are largely not on board with what Trump's doing.

So it's really trying to take...

The kernel of truth in the fact that sometimes Antifa groups will use violent means to oppose the far right and transpose this into this imagined broader terrorist conspiracy and then take really kind of standard direct action forms of resistance being practiced by trade unionists and activists on the street in Minnesota and conflate that with this concocted criminal terrorist conspiracy.

you can see how there's a long twisted web of misguided conflation to get from Antifa to these charges.

And what are you going to be watching for, Professor, as we head into the election, the thick of this election cycle and the midterm election? Do you see that this is becoming an increasing talking point down the ticket, so to speak, or down the ballot?

Mm.

And it's kind of just been, it's almost like, um, a club, you know, where you, you, you know, you, you'd go off and hang out with some friends and make some films and stuff like that.

And we've just sort of slowly gone up and up and tried to make it bigger and better.

Not necessarily to show off or to be the biggest or the greatest or anything like that, but just because we just love it, you know, and, and love telling Doctor Who stories, and there's so much you can do with Doctor Who.

And yeah, it's kind of just slowly formed into this-...

this thing that, uh, we're still doing, and we're still collaborating.

And, uh, like you mentioned, we're about to bring out a project this August.

Mm.

Like, if you have kids, they're in school, if you, you know, this is a, this is not a small decision.

Well, so as I was saying, I was watching this game, one of Yankees, Blue Jays, I get the- the doxing email.

I knew I didn't wanna be in my house, but I talked to my, my wife who's also a Rutgers history professor.

We considered, well, you know, we could get an apartment in the same town or the town over and keep our kids at the same school, and we were, we were considering that.

But then, we got the- the public doxing and the threats kept coming, and- and the fact of the matter is that two years ago, my family lived in Spain for a year on a research trip.

My kids remember that.

They had a nice time.

How so?

If you you know, this is a this is not a small decision.

Well, so as I was saying, I was watching the game, one of the Yankees, Blue Jays.

I get the doxing email.

I knew I didn't want to be in my house, but I talked to my my wife, who's also a Rutgers history professor.

We considered, well, you know, we could get an apartment in the same town or the town over and keep our kids at the same school.

And we were considering that.

But then we got the public doxing and the threats kept coming.

How so?

If you-- You know, this is a, this is not a small decision.

Well, so as I was saying, I was watching the game one of Yankees-Blue Jays.

I get the, the doxing email.

I knew I didn't wanna be in my house, but I talked to my, my wife, who's also a Rutgers history professor.

We considered, well, you know, we could get an apartment in the same town or the town over and keep our kids at the same school, and we were, we were considering that.

But then we got the, the public doxing, and the threats kept coming.

And, and the fact of the matter is that two years ago, my family lived in Spain for a year on a research trip.

How so?

What happened?

Yeah.

So, I published the book in 2017.

I spoke about it incessantly for a few years, and then I moved on to other research.

I've been living in suburban New Jersey, teaching at Rutgers.

I'm a dad.

I- I've been researching a book about scams.

Clearly, this administration thinks that basically all Democrats are Antifa, essentially.

I mean, when you were investigating, and I know your book was written sort of previous to that, would you have ever framed Antifa in that way as being part of a domestic terror network? Is there any conceivable way that that, that that strikes a chord with you?

Well, you know, a formative moment of my youth was 9/11, right? When Al-Qaeda flew airplanes into the Twin Towers, killed thousands of people.

Um, we've seen what's happened, like for example, with ISIS in the Middle East, where they've killed thousands and, and conquered entire territories.

For me, that's what I think of when I think of terrorism.

It is slaughtering people indiscriminately.

Antifa groups in the US have had con- confrontations with the far right, most famously in Charlottesville.

You know, punches have been thrown, pepper spray has been sprayed.

Do you feel like America is out of bounds to you now, to your family, to the rest of your career?

So, how do you, how do you situate that argument in the context of what, what you're going through right now?

Yeah, well, so I am an activist.

I've been involved in a number of different social movements over the years.

Um, perhaps the most notably Occupy Wall Street in New York City in 2011.

I have very strong ideas about how I think the world could be a better place.

I'd like to see it become a better place.

The one movement that I've never actually played any activist role in is the anti-fascist movement, and so the, the genesis of this book was that I did an interview about the history and ideas of anti-fascism on NPR in 2017.

So, in the book, you also write that, "Anti-fascism is in a liberal politic of social revolutionism applied to fighting the far right, not just literal fascists." So, what is social revolutionism and who would you consider to be a member of the far right?

What's the difference between Antifa and anti-fascist? 'Cause they're not the same thing.

Anti-fascism is like an umbrella term for all different forms of resistance to fascism, but I think came to be crystallized as its own kind of specific tendency, particularly after World War II in the context of European debates in the left about how to respond to the potential resurgence of fascism or Nazism.

The tradition that came to be known in English as militant anti-fascism was more of a kind of grassroots radical left movement to stop the fascists and Nazis in their communities at, you know, football stadiums, at punk shows.

That specific European-inspired anti-fascism made its main influence with the creation of the Anti-Racist Action Network in the US from the late '80s into the '90s, but the US has other anti-fascist traditions.

For example, there's a really good book called The Black Anti-Fascist Tradition that talks through the role of anti-fascism in different kinds of African American liberation movements, Black Panthers and so forth.

So short answer, right, is that Antifa is like this specific tendency within a broader history of resistance to fascism.

I wonder, given what you've gone through, being run out of the country, whether your perspective on free speech has changed.

Uh, no.

This is not a small decision.

Well, so as I was saying, I was watching the game one of Yankees-Blue Jays.

I get the doxing email.

I knew I didn't want to be in my house, but I talked to my wife, who's also a Rutgers history professor.

We considered, well, you know, we could get an apartment in the same town or the town over and keep our kids at the same school.

And we were considering that.

But then we got the public doxing and the threats kept coming.

How so?

This is not a small decision.

Well, so as I was saying, I was watching the game one of Yankees-Blue Jays.

I get the doxing email.

I knew I didn't want to be in my house, but I talked to my wife, who's also a Rutgers history professor.

We considered, well, you know, we could get an apartment in the same town or the town over and keep our kids at the same school.

And we were considering that.

But then we got the public doxing and the threats kept coming.

How so?

You know, this is a, this is not a small decision.

Well, so as I was saying, I was watching this game, one of Yankees, Blue Jays, I get the, the doxing email.

I knew I didn't want to be in my house, but I talked to my, my wife was also a Rutgers history professor.

We considered, well, you know, we could get an apartment in the same town or the town over and keep our kids at the same school, and we were, we were considering that.

But then we got the, the public doxing and the threats kept coming, and, and the fact of the matter is that two years ago, my family lived in Spain for a year on a research trip.

My kids remember that.

They had a nice time.

How so?

If you can explain what Antifa is and what it means for President Trump to have issued this executive order, calling it a terrorist, domestic terrorist organization, is it even an organization? Talk about Antifa now and through history.

Right.

So as you said, it's a term that is short for anti-fascist or anti-fascism.

It's originally German from the era of opposition to Hitler.

After World War II, anti-fascism continued throughout the world.

And the specific European tradition of what they called Antifa spread to other countries around the world.

For example, in the U.S., you had anti-racist action in the 80s and 90s, which was a network of decentralized groups across the continent organizing against the far right.

Even Republican politicians behind closed doors are saying, where is the evidence for who these people are who've been killed by the U.S. bombs? Mark Bray, your response to Pambande?

If you can explain what Antifa is and what it means for President Trump to have issued this executive order calling it a terrorist, domestic terrorist organization? Is it even an organization? Talk about Antifa now and through history.

Right.

So, as you said, it's a term that is short for anti-fascist or anti-fascism.

It's originally German from the era of opposition to Hitler.

Um, after World War II, anti-fascism continued throughout the world, um, and the specific European tradition of what they called Antifa, um, spread to other countries around the world.

Um, for example, in the US you had Anti-Racist Action in the '80s and '90s, which was a network of decentralized groups across the continent organizing against the far right.

The term Antifa really kind of made its appearance in the US, um, in the late 2000s, but it's not an organization.

Even Republican politicians behind closed doors are saying, "Where is the evidence for, um, who these people are who've been killed by the US bombs?" Mark Bray, your response to Pam Bondi?

Do you think of Antifa as a movement or as you heard the DHS secretary say, likening it to a gang?

Oh, my gosh.

No, Antifa is a kind of a politics or a movement.

It's short for anti-fascist in a number of languages.

Its history goes back more than 100 years to opposing Hitler and Mussolini.

I bring that research to bear in my book.

And you can read about it.

In the meantime, what are you going to be watching for going forward? I know you'll be focused on the safety of your family, but we hear a White House that is saying they are going to bring to bear the federal government on pursuing individuals they feel fall in line with this movement.