But what did the early days of responding to EAB look like in terms of detection and survey methods, Mark?

Yeah, I mean, detecting emerald ash borer has been a problem from the beginning because, like I was talking about, you really don't detect it until it's kind of too late because it's already there and it's in numbers high enough to be damaging trees.

So we always have been playing catch up.

So I first got involved with emerald ash borer, I think, like in 2005.

So it was found in Michigan in 2002.

And we started looking for it in Minnesota in 2005. and we would have the opportunity to go to workshops say in Michigan and like see infested trees and so that's for me that's always been a really important thing is to try to pass on that because there's like there's no way to beat that experience of seeing it with your own eyes and so But when we would go to a workshop, I would always be like, okay, I'm looking at a tree.

How would I tell if this is infested or not? You know, the group would be, you know, peeling bark off and looking for galleries and whatnot.

And Mark, what advice would you give communities that are just beginning to deal with the presence of EAB? Yeah,