And in particular, what have some of the pivotal moments been at the different organizations that have shaped you getting to this point in the health system?

some of it's been quite, um, stark.

So I can remember when I, uh, my first non-executive job and I was a complaints convener and there was an incident where a young child lost their life and, um, going through that process, that serious incident review and understanding where we went wrong, but also very much the human side of it.

Um, and, um, sort of seeing the way that both the clinical staff and the family the impact on them of that but particularly the learning from that and working with the family to make sure that the learning from that meant that it wouldn't happen again which is the most important thing for families actually it's not about huge financial compensation they want they really want to know it won't happen um to somebody else i think i think that's that's one of one of the things that you learn i think too it's just speaking to people on the front line so i remember when i started a um elft going on on a visit yeah um and there was a young man um in forensic services which is yeah Um, and what happened was that, um, and, and before I'd gone on, there was like all these kind of rules about what you can and can't do because it was sort of, um, and I spoke to this young, he must've been sort of like in his late twenties.

And I said to him, so, you know, so what keeps you going? And he said, it may not happen often and it won't be for long, but there will be times when I connect with a service user.

And, you know, and we really connect on a human level.

And that is just so brilliant.

Although that's a good recognition of all of them.