What, what, like, what concretely can you do to build these alternatives? And who, and also, who builds them?

So what we see is that there is an emerging cloud sector, uh, in Europe.

Uh, they're not big.

They're, but they have the potential to be, uh, big.

You have a French company like OVHcloud.

You have, uh, the Schwarz Group, uh, that provides- Cloud services, uh, sort of same price point basically as, uh, Amazon would do AWS.

So you, you see that coming, but you can do all the support systems if you do not have customers.

I mean, what, what do you build first? What do you regulate first to get to that stability?

Do politicians need to be more honest with their voters that there are going to be difficult choices to be made and some of those are going to mean a change in perhaps some parts of that social system that Europe has constructed?

Well, I think you need to make changes in order to develop the social system that Europe has constructed.

I think that is the point.

And I think people are more than ready to hear this because they feel it already.

They see the problems.

They see increasing inequality.

They see that businesses do not thrive as they ought to do.

Do you worry that some of the efforts being called simplification by the Commission to, I suppose you could argue, pull back or simplify parts of the regulation for technology is perhaps giving up on some of those tenets?

Nu bliver det måske lidt mere sådan spekulativt, men er det noget af det, du kigger på, når du kigger ind i fremtiden? Om vi simpelthen skal retænke vores måde at kigge på produktivitet og kigge på økonomi på for at bygge det her Europa eller den her verden, vi gerne vil have.

Jeg tror, at de store fremskridt i produktivitet.

De ligger jo i brugen af kunstig intelligens.

Ikke nødvendigvis at lave en stor sprogmodel, men at lave en en funktion ovenpå den, som kan et eller andet specifikt.

Og så er det selvfølgelig smart at lave den sådan, at du kan skifte sprogmodellen ud, så du ikke ligesom for altid skal ligesom være i hænderne på hvad ved jeg.

Open a I som så laver en aftale med det amerikanske militær, som du måske ikke er så begejstret for.

Så vil du gerne skifte over til Cloud, fordi du ved de har i hvert fald nogle overvejelser, som går en anden vej, Men det er i den service man lægger ovenpå, at værdiskabelsen kan finde sted.

Hvad så hvis man har et rigtig godt pokerface?

He didn't create the dysfunction, he just poured gasoline on the fire and accelerated the decline." Is there any way to fix that?

Well, this should be what we were doing right now because before the first Trump presidency, you know, there was legitimate criticism of the Western world order by what we call the Global South.

The WTO didn't really work.

The UN was not the peace promoter, uh, that it should have been.

So of course we needed a new world order, but right now we're not approaching a new world order.

There is a war that affects everybody.

Look at artificial intelligence.

Many times you're bailed out by the US, and it just doesn't seem like there's a lot of, of gratitude.

But we're lagging behind on the coordination of those investments, and there I think the commission could also play a part.

And two good examples to illustrate Ditte's points.

I think the first one is, uh, the commission, when I was there, we set the goal that Europe should go from producing 10% of the world's semiconductors to 20%.

The commission could only do European legislation that was targeting sort of the, the knowledge, uh, infrastructure, but not the real infrastructure.

You know, enabling foundries, uh, packaging facilities, all of that.

When it came to actually establish more production on ground, it was fully dependent on national state aid.

So of course, I was responsible for enabling that state aid.

But there's still rules, right? It's not just trusting it'll all work out.