We'll now turn to Mr. Tatara.

Uh, I think it's port- it, it's important to find a right balance between, you know, being too close to politicians and not talking to them, uh, at all.

And, you know, there are some civil society activists or NGOs saying, "Oh, we just want to be very separate from politicians." But I think in the cur- in the political situation of Poland, it was bad strategy.

We had to talk, to meet with each other.

On the other hand, you have to remember that in the situation when the media environment, especially public m- media, is captured by the other side, uh- These relations can be also risky, not only between politicians and NGOs, but also politicians or, and members of, uh, uh, legal professions.

Even if, if these were not true relations, you know, the appearance at the similar marches, uh, defending the rule of law by politicians and judges was presented by the propaganda media outlets as, you know, politicization of judiciary, uh, which was, uh, uh, of course, uh, a propaganda tool, not a real politicization.

So it is important to understand how these relations between civil society and politicians can be used by the other side.

Uh, we'll now turn to Mr. Katawa.

We'll now turn to Mr. Tatusal.

Uh, I think it's portal-- it, it's important to find a right balance between, you know, being too close to politicians and not talking to them, uh, at all.

And, you know, there are some civil society activists or NGOs saying, "Oh, we just want to be very separate from politicians." But I think in the cur- in the political situation of Poland, it was bad strategy.

We had to talk, to meet with each other.

On the other hand, you have to remember that in the situation when the media environment, especially public m-media, is captured by the other side, uh, these relations can be also risky, not only between politicians or NGOs, but also politicians or, and members of, uh, uh, legal professions.

Even if, if these were not true relations, you know, the appearance at the similar marches, uh, defending the rule of law by politicians and judges was presented by the propaganda media outlets as, you know, politicization of judiciary, uh, which was, uh, uh, of course, uh, a propaganda tool, not a real politicization.

So it is important to understand how these relations between civil society and politicians can be used by the other side.

Uh, we'll now turn to Mr. Katawa.

We'll now turn to Mr. Tatawa.

I think it's important to find a right balance between, you know, being too close to politicians and not talking to them at all.

And, you know, there are some civil society activists or NGOs saying, oh, we just want to be very separate from politicians.

But I think in the political situation of Poland, it was bad strategy.

We had to talk to meet with each other.

On the other hand, you have to remember that in the situation when the media environment, especially public media, is captured by the other side, these relations can be also risky, not only between politicians and NGOs, but also politicians and members of legal professions.

Even if these were not true relations, you know, the appearance at the similar marches defending the rule of law by politicians and judges was presented by the propaganda media outlets as politicization of judiciary, which was, of course, a propaganda tool, not a real politicization.

We'll now turn to Mr. Katawa.

We'll now turn to Mr. Tatawa.

I think it's important to find a right balance between, you know, being too close to politicians and not talking to them at all.

And, you know, there are some civil society activists or NGOs saying, oh, we just want to be very separate from politicians.

But I think in the political situation of Poland, it was bad strategy.

We had to talk to meet with each other.

On the other hand, you have to remember that in the situation when the media environment, especially public media, is captured by the other side, these relations can be also risky, not only between politicians and NGOs, but also politicians and members of legal professions.

Even if these were not true relations, you know, the appearance at the similar marches defending the rule of law by politicians and judges was presented by the propaganda media outlets as politicization of judiciary, which was, of course, a propaganda tool, not a real politicization.

We'll now turn to Mr. Katawa.