Marcy Gettleman, Deputy General Counsel of Lenar Corporation.

And that to me is a good outside counsel who says to me, you know what, Marcy, creative, but no.

You know, an outside counsel that just does whatever I ask is not necessarily an effective, you know, outside counsel for me.

You know, I need them to push back and tell me what works, what doesn't work.

The truth is, I mean, for me, having really strong relationships with my outside counsel makes my job easier.

If I'm struggling with or at odds with my outside counsel, whether it be personality conflict, whether it be a strategy in a case, whatever the case may be, it makes my job more difficult if I don't have a really good, strong working relationship with my outside counsel.

It makes me way more successful.