I'll build on what you're

saying about cross-disciplinary.

This is, I think all of us that have been doing this for a while recognize you can be an expert in one area, which is fine, but you can draw some parallels to the medical community.

You have people that are specialists in various areas, could be cancer, you know, could be liver disease, whatever.

And then you have general practitioners who know a little bit about everything.

And those are those GPs, the ones you typically go to your family doctors and stuff that they know enough to figure out where the problem is.

They also know that they're not a specialist in a particular area and they know who to refer you to.

Yes, we can retrofit some things, but certainly it's also designed maybe to begin with better to say these 18 risks, they just aren't possible anymore in this system.

I, I'll build on what you're saying about-

about-Cross-disciplinary.

This is, I think all of us that have been doing this for a while recognize you can be an expert in one area, which is fine, but, um, you can draw some parallels to the medical community.

You have people that are specialists in various areas.

Could be cancer, you know, could be liver disease, whatever.

And then you have general practitioners who know a little bit about everything, and those, those are the, those GPs, the ones you typically go to, your family doctors and stuff, that, um, they know enough to, to figure out where the problem is.

They also know that they're not a specialist in a particular area, and they know who to refer you to.

Different?

I did a 20-year

career, was going to head off to the private sector, September 11th happens, and then I get a phone call from the White House wanting to know if I could come over and work for them instead of running off to the private sector.

So, you know, when the White House calls, of course you say yes.

And I was there for a couple of years.

This was started early 2002, so just a couple of months after September 11th.

And through 2002, we really were working on the national strategy to secure cyberspace.

First time we'd ever done that, put together a White House strategy.

So,

How do you work with your senior people to help them build their communication strategy as they talk across levels? Is that something you do consciously? Is that something you just bring to the you know i've i've got the experience here's what to do here's the right analogy here's the right mental model is that harder trying to translate what you've built up over your career to others to help them build a communication strategy

well some some people learn by observing so if the way that i talk to them the way i explain things i've noticed this over my career i think everybody's seen this if it if it's working out as a leader the people below you will begin to imitate you they'll follow your traits and this is somebody pointed this out to me early on said sir cut your hair real short make it into a flat top now i'm in the army that'd be like a marine haircut why would i want to do that to see if your soldiers will do the same thing okay so i did it within a month half my soldiers had flat tops i didn't say a thing to them imitating the boss you know i saw other other folks would do this to grow out a mustache or you know just something just different and see if others did the same thing.

And so running a staff and particularly for your direct reports by setting the example, by doing what you think is right, and then they will follow you is, is a key leadership technique.

You know, it's just one of those things is just to set the example.

But as you move further up your career, you know, there's two things you have to balance.

One is keeping the technical skills.

Your job becomes less and less technical.

you know they need to

How have you developed that over the many years?

Yeah, that's a great question.

Cause my career has been a little like, like many of the rest of us, I started off in the military, did 20 years and then retired.

Um, Early 2002, it's hard to believe I'm approaching 25 years since I retired, having done a 20-year career.

But it was one of these things you discover early on fairly quickly, how to lead and also how to manage upwards, talking to bosses and seniors and others around you and how to explain what's going on around you.

I think one of the things I developed early on was the ability to use analogies.

So if I Now, I grew up as a civil engineer, undergrad in civil engineering, came into the Army as a Corps of Engineers second lieutenant, and spent the first 10, 12 years in the Army doing that type of work, construction, bridging, regular civil engineering, before moving moreover to the software side of the world.

Is that harder trying to translate what you've built up over your career to others to help them build a communication strategy?