So how should a Christian weigh those two kinds of service against each other, and what does it look like, uh, practically in terms of how we spend money, uh, make vocational decisions, raise our kids, to take seriously the difference between the temporary and the permanent?

Yeah, you know, one of the things that really blossomed in front of me as I was studying this, um, is how often the Bible talks about the difference between what's permanent and what's temporary.

So there, again, there are a lot of topics.

We talked about this in a prior episode.

A lot of topics that we don't get a lot of detail from scripture about that we might want, you know, what should our bioethics be or something.

And, w-we can still work from what scripture says to illuminate those topics, but, but then there are topics that scripture talks about all the time, and not mistaking what's permanent for what's temporary, uh, is one of those, right, or vice versa.

Um, so as an example, what should I do with my discretionary income, right? So I, I have certain commitments or needs.

How do you hold that tension personally, and what would you want a seminary student or a pastor, uh, someone on the front end of ministry and life to carry away from this whole conversation about how to live faithfully between Christ's first and second comings?

So when Paul quotes Genesis two twenty-four in Ephesians five and then says, "I am speaking of Christ and the church," what exactly is he claiming? What's the relationship between the original institution of marriage in the garden and the union of Christ and the church?

Yeah.

So it's an exciting text.

I think it's, um, you know, something that we can just read and reread so many times to see different facets of.

Um, on the topic of Christ and culture, I think one of the things we need to see is how Paul weaves the practical details of marriage, um, how husbands and wives ought to behave toward one another, uh, together with, um, two other things.

One is a, a constant reference to Christ and instruction to husbands and wives on the basis of who Christ is and what he's done.

But the other is how both of these things, how, uh, the practical parts of marriage and the Christology both Paul finds anchored in Genesis two.

How does an eschatological vision, knowing that my marriage, the, the bread that I bake or the city I live in is pointing towards something greater, how does that change the way I show up to those things? What does it look like in practice to, to bake bread or build a city as a Christian specifically because of this?

But can you talk about why you start, uh, your article focusing on these two impulses and how they are both biblical?

Yeah, sure.

Um, so the subject of Christ and culture is, is very difficult.

It's very complex.

It brings together a lot of different threads from scripture.

And so, uh, just wanna say that sort of as a background as we get started.

Uh, it's something about which Reformed people have disagreed.

Without getting too deep into the weeds of that debate, what do you find unsatisfying about a view that separates the common cultural realm from the distinctly religious realm? And why doesn't that division hold up biblically?