... like from your experience, what were the moments where you personally started realizing that something was off about the way the sector fundraising is fundraising and, and how that feels for diverse people of color?

Yeah.

There were, there were a couple moments I think that, that stand out to me.

Um, so even before, even before I was in fundraising properly, I worked for our local United Way organization doing one, you know, doing a k- a workplace campaign associate, which I'm sure a lot of fundraisers, you know, are, are familiar with that, with that type of work.

And so we got to go into, you know, businesses, corporations across North Texas, and really, and what I appreciate is that for the most part, it was just talking to, you know, everyday working folks about the power of giving.

Um, but I think even in that context, the working in, you know, some people, some people rightfully or wrongfully consider United Way organizations as kind of this ivory tower in their communities.

And so even seeing that level of like disconnect on a real and tangible basis as I'm giving this presentation about giving, which is actually doing good, right? But actually it's coming from this particular place of privilege.

... where do you, where do you see that, like, landscape now? Because CCF seems to be one of the only organizations that I'm aware of in the sector that is still promoting this equity in fundraising.