Elizabeth,

a couple of things.

One, the president's a master at changing the headlines.

And, you know, for three days we've been talking about what a debacle Tuesday was for Republicans and for this administration.

And now all the coverage is about Stephen Miller being named chief of staff.

And so I think that's part of the intent.

I think to Mick's point, part of it is that they don't think they need Congress.

Do you know him?

What do you make of him becoming the next chief of staff? What's he going to, to, what's that going to look like?

Well, Caitlin, I remember when Mike Pence was chosen to be on the ticket in 2016, and we had our first trip to Trump Tower to kind of visit the campaign apparatus.

And even though I knew it was pretty smart and I expected to see a pretty busy, bustling place, and we walk in and there were two people.

It was Stephen Miller and Hope Hicks.

And Stephen has been with the president since 2015.

As you know, he was press secretary for Jeff Sessions, who was the only senator who supported Donald Trump in the primary.

And so Stephen's been there.

What do you make of that?

Talk about big tent, right? There are some really different people in that group.

Yeah.

Well, thanks for having me here.

And, you know, early in my career, I was chief of staff for Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson from Texas, and she won a special election in 1993.

It was the last time a Democrat held a seat in the Senate from Texas.

So it's been 30 some years.

I think the tone and tenor of James Tallarico was was very appropriate and it should be the right message for today.

What does it say to you that they're both running against each other?

Talk about big tent, right? There are some really different people in that group.

Yeah.

Well, thanks for having me here.

And, you know, early in my career, I was chief of staff for Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson from Texas, and she won a special election in 1993.

It was the last time a Democrat held a seat in the Senate from Texas.

So it's been 30 some years.

I think the tone and tenor of James Tallarico was was very appropriate and it should be the right message for today.

What does it say to you that they're both running against each other?

Let's find a way to be kind and win together.

I don't know yet.

I think the reality is we're probably headed for more vitriol over the next couple of years.

I think that President Trump likes having a foil and he'll have a bigger foil in Schumer and Jeffries than he did with Thune and Johnson.

But, you know, I think also Kansas required a perfect storm and you had a president push a tariff policy that was crushing farmers in Kansas.

You had basically attacking Canada when Bombardier is one of the biggest employers in Kansas.

And and so it was kind of the perfect storm there.

What do you think this could mean for your former boss, Mike Pence?

And we know how that worked out.

look i mean a lot of polls have been wrong too i think the reality is this is different than a casino where you actually have a book that has people who are professionals who set what the book is and you're betting against them like like when you go into casino it is betting against you in this case it's a market it's a marketplace and you have people who are saying what they how they think it's going to turn out and so uh who are we to say that they're necessarily wrong on this i mean The reality is it's a sample size of a certain number of voters.

I don't know how many voters are gonna make their decision because they say, hey, on CalSheet says it's a 70% chance that so-and-so is gonna win, so I'm not gonna turn out to vote.

I'm not a believer in that.

Okay, and then take us through the rehabilitation with the political.

Well, look, I think that we as Republicans and conservatives often think that the Democrats are so crazy liberal and they're going to nominate somebody so crazy liberal to be their nominee.

But when they've been out of power, history shows it's actually not what they do.

When you go back to whether it's Jimmy Carter, you go to Bill Clinton, you go to the times when we're opposing the control, what do they do? Is they actually turn to somebody at the time perceived as more moderate than Joe Biden? And so it's like that's what their track record is.

But Mark, does this have an impact, this sort of Funny business, I dare say, does go on behind the scenes from both parties.

Yeah, look, I think it does have an impact.

I think the reality is most voters don't want to elect somebody who's lied to them.

And I think the reality is that Mary Patola basically said she had nothing to do with this.

Her campaign said they had nothing to do with it.

The Democrat Senatorial Committee said they had nothing to do with it.

And now the evidence suggests that they did.

Overnight, the president's posting on his social media site about the golf course here in D.C. As a Republican who worked in a Trump White House in the past, you don't have hair to pull out right now, but I'm figuring you'd be pulling out your hair that he isn't on message on the issues that really do matter to Americans, wouldn't you?

Do voters want to hear about the record oil profits that companies are making right now?

Caitlin, I think that as we head into this midterm, the Democrats have nominated truly some radical socialists in many cases that have harbored resentment toward America.

But a challenge for a Republican in this cycle is you're trying to make it about them when you have control of the House, the Senate, and the White House.

So it's a really difficult challenge if that's what you're running the midterm on.

And this White House isn't helping Republicans who are on the ballot.

Number one issue is remain affordability, and those concerns are generally dismissed.

And what I think exacerbates the challenge for Republicans is every day there's a new story of grift coming out of the White House, of whether or not it's the president's son who's having a wedding paid for by a Russian oligarch, or you have Middle Eastern nations that have harbored terrorists investing in their investment funds, or getting access to things that American taxpayers don't.

Why do you think you changed that line?

Also here tonight is CNN political commentator and the former Trump White House communications director, alissa farrah griffin and you know as we just look at what the president's argument is tonight mark i do think there is a question of where diesel prices are hitting this high price this high benchmark in ohio are voters going to buy that ukraine is to blame for that

no okay well and i think the reality though is that it's it's far worse than that in my mind it's like you're giving a win to vladimir putin who has been obviously a murderous dictator who started this in this fight with ukraine who's killed innocents tens of thousands who's stolen children across the border um vladimir putin is losing this war he's lost tens of thousands of soldiers there's a lot of pressure at home why we're trying to give him a lifeline I don't understand.

And the reality is that so you may potentially lower diesel price by a couple pennies, although I think there's much skepticism because the infrastructure in Russia has been so debilitated that they really couldn't even give us that.

But for what, Caitlin? I think a lot of the president's policies have elevated costs across the heartland of America for farmers on fertilizer, on diesel, on gasoline prices.

It's the heartland of America in many cases that has provided men and women who are serving our country.

And Russia is providing the intelligence to Iran to kill and fight American men and women.

And so what you're basically saying to our farmers is, I'm going to lower your diesel costs maybe by a couple pennies in exchange for blood money to kill more Ukrainians and to give blood money to Russians who are using intel to go after American troops.

thinks they're helping Republicans.

I want to give you a chance to respond to the congressman and also to Abdullah Syed's comments.

Well, Kevin, I think I made a couple of points.

One is that he couldn't make a difference between Iran and Israel.

Secondly, when given opportunities to denounce Hezbollah, Hamas, al-Qaeda, he refuses to do so.

There's been a lot of stories about all of his family ties, but to keep it directly based on him, I'd also made the comment that there are Democrats that feel for their own safety and don't want to go to events in which he is And I think that's what got Ro Khanna upset.

But the reality is that the Democrat attorney general in their own state has said, I don't feel safe.

I don't feel personally safe being at events where he is.

Mark, do you think Republicans are doing a good enough job of combating this? Should they be taking a head-on approach, or is that risking a Streisand effect where more people end up becoming aware of some of the allegations?

Do you want Donald Trump in your district or not? I guess it depends, of course.

Look, I, I think at this point, Peter, it's pretty hard to distance yourself.

I think the reality is you need President Trump's supporters to come out if you're gonna win.

I have a bigger concern on the policy differences.

Like, you see people now professing disappointment with the trade agenda.

Well, the reality is that for almost all these people on the ballot, they had opportunities for Congress to assert its constitutional role in this, and they didn't.

And so, um, uh, I think there should've been a policy differentiation before, but at this point, I think on a personality front, you need Trump supporters to come out if you're gonna win, and so I think for a lot of voters it looks pretty opportunistic to try to distance yourself now.

Mark, just what do you make of that, the sort of the grifting, the corruption, the idea that this is happening?

How do you explain that for a president trying to lead his party to success?

I think when it comes to the data centers, the reality is that China wants to win this war on A.I.

They want to be ahead of us.

And there's actually reporting out today about how China, Russia, Iran collaborating to sow more and more discontent amongst Americans about data centers and the growth of A.I., We're in a global competition here with China, who would like nothing more than for the bureaucrats in Washington, D.C. to regulate it and to slow it down.

And I don't think, again, that there's been a cohesive argument provided other than to simply dismiss the complaints as a hoax.

And when a lot of Americans have concerns and fears, you need to do more than say it's simply a hoax.

You need to explain, here's again what the alternative is, here's who we're competing with, and here's why it's important that America stay in front in this race.

I hear is a really important distinction because in many countries including over here secure borders very important political issues and surely that is the case in the US but you're saying the deportation part of it the ugliness on the streets especially sometimes against American citizens is just you know a step too far so I hear you on that finally If they get a shellacking, as President Obama admitted he got back in 20-whatever it was, what should the Republicans do? What is the future of the Republican Party, especially post-Trump, who's dominated the Republican Party for 10 years? Well,

Why is it only now on the brink of, of potentially disastrous midterms that they're beginning to put their foot in the water about this?

Well, Christiane, I, I think it's because of the midterms, but I, I think that, you know, the word you used there in the beginning I think is what's most important.

I, I perhaps come at this from a different perspective.

I, I'm, I'm supportive of the president's efforts here.

I think that, uh, there could be significant peace dividend into the future, and I think the reality is the economic sanctions are showing they're actually having significant impact on Iran.

And so, and so I think the policy and what the military has done has been extraordinarily, uh, successful in the military strikes.

But where I think the administration failed was on the front end.

Is he? How do you explain that for a president trying to lead his party to success?

Agree? Disagree, Mark?

Well, Katie, I think that the last several cycles, there's certainly been a Democrats have pulled better in the summer and perhaps have not achieved what they hope for in the fall.

But I think there's a lot of signs this time that it is different.

I think you're seeing in Iowa the entire delegation call for export bans.

Last week you saw in Kansas both senators complain about ICE enforcement in their state.

These are not things that you would be seeing if those candidates felt like the polling was an aberration.

I do think historically, look, Katie, I was working in the House in 2010 when Republicans had a historic midterm against Obama.

Texas, is there a reason why Karl Rove is talking about this race as if it is one that they are very much at risk of losing?

Didn't make the argument why we should all sacrifice together

...

I, I, I agree with you, Peter, and then it was, it was in...

But then when they did, it was, it was for regime change, and then it was to stop nuclear weapons, then it was to degrade the military.

And I think the com- the problem has been never telling the American people, "Here's gonna be the cost." And as you say, not only are diesel prices up and fertilizer price, but in Middle America, farmers, in many cases, aren't able to now find new markets for their products because of the trade war.

There's been retaliation from these massive, um, you know, protections trade policy, and so you don't now have markets where you can sell.

Immigration obviously is-

Obviously, yeah.

Is it true that the vice president, you're not thinking about that? You're not planning about that? Or is there something that it's only smart to be planning about things, but what happens next?

Well, the circumstance is a little bit different because keep in mind that in 2020, Trump was on top of the ticket.

At 28, he won't be.

And so it is a different scenario for the current vice president.

I think that's exactly the right answer to give.

And there's a lot that has to play out between now and then.

And so you already are familiar with a lot of his advisors having left in the conversations.

I think my question actually, Mark, Cruz aside, any number of people, if somebody came to you right now as somebody who's considering running in 28, what would you tell them about what they should be doing?

What do you make of how much head space this takes up for this Trump administration?

I don't know how much head space it takes up for the administration, as much as it does for the media following it.

I think some of this, honestly, Kaitlan, is just funny.

But I think what's not is the actual policy behind it.

I think the reality is that, uh, you know, today [laughs] there was data that came out that said in July we, uh, trade deficit increased 17% to $118 billion.

And that was the whole purpose of these tariffs were supposed to do, was allegedly affix the trade deficit, which shouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

And so when Americans are facing concerns about affordability or high energy prices or high agriculture prices, and you're starting trade wars with a country that has been an ally, I think that's a much greater concern.

I mean, Marc, it is taking up a lot of time in terms of, they called the press in today simply to, to dedicate it to this event.

He could be impeached again.

He looks at it as, "I've defeated them twice, and they've said they sent a, they sent the DOJ after me." And candidly, he has more fun sparring with Jeffries and Schumer than he does with Johnson and Thune.

And so a lot of Republicans are counting on President Trump, but he's said himself he's not invested in the midterms at other times.

And so, you know, I, I, I, I'm not too surprised that this is where we are.

Wow.

Yeah, I would, I would agree.

I mean, the Democrats say they're not gonna impeach him again, but if the base of the party, if they're doing investigations and the base of the party hears it more and they'll want it.

I do think there's a difference in the second term and that I think that one of the rally cries that, that I heard again in 2016 and 2020 repeatedly that got the crowds most animated was a promise to drain the swamp.

Is the fear of socialism enough to get them out to the ballot box in a midterm election Because they're more afraid of socialism than they dislike where America is right now and maybe are not too thrilled with MAGA and Republicans at all.

Well, Leland, I think it depends.

I think in some cases the brand that Democrats are putting forward are so radical and so far left that, yes, I think it can be a motivating factor for Republican voters to come out.

But I think to your lead in, I think the challenge for Republicans is that one of the primary issues back two years ago, the elected Donald Trump was wanting to address the affordability issue.

And when inflation remains a persistent problem that's not been addressed and Republicans aren't saying, you know what, we pass tax relief.

Markets are all-time highs.

Here's how that tax relief is helping make your life more affordable.

Everybody agrees with me.

Why is it so hard for the administration to get on the same page when it comes to messaging?

Well, look, it, it's hard, I think, that the media always, honestly, Boris, it wants to show, show division, whether, not just in this administration, but any division between a president and vice president.

But that's why it's all the more important to make sure you're on the same page, so you don't allow that to become a storyline.

I'm not so sure in this case it is a big...

I think the president has said we need to deter them from nuclear weapons.

He's also talked about the importance of energy prices.

And so I'm not so sure this is much, but I think it is clear from the beginning of this conflict that Vice President Vance has made it known that he was opposed to it, and he's allowed that word to get out, and that does create, I think, uh, a conflict and tension.

Do you feel like it's been worth the cost so far?

Don't they have a mission to keep other top cabinet officials safe as well, especially someone as high up as Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State? Mark Short?

Well, Katy, thanks for having me.

Look, I, I, I think that their first and foremost responsibility is to protect the president of the United States, and I think, you know, we don't have every bit of information that they had at that time.

Uh, and I think also that the Secret Service is predominantly supposed to protect the president, the vice president.

A lot of other cabinet officials have their own protective services by the federal government that is not part of the Secret Service.

And so, um, I, I, I think that there's part of this that, that we don't have the full information at this point to, to decide what they knew and why they made decisions to pro- to-

... else that could have happened to not make them unwitting decoys to hide him?

I, I, yeah, again, I don't have all the information really, Katy, to be able to make that, uh, determination.

Don't they have a mission to keep other top cabinet officials safe as well, especially someone as high up as Marco Rubio, the secretary of state? Mark Short.

Well, Katie, thanks for having me.

Look, I think that their first and foremost responsibility is to protect the president of the United States.

And I think, you know, we don't have every bit of information that they had at that time.

And I think also that the Secret Service is predominantly supposed to protect the president, the vice president.

A lot of other cabinet officials have their own protective services by the federal government that is not part of the Secret Service.

And so I I think that there's part of this that we don't have the full information at this point to decide what they knew and why they made decisions to remove the president from the plane.

I wonder how a story like this, do you believe it factors in at all? Does it add to any of the frustration or the disillusionment with this president? Does it does it harm him? Does it harm the Republican Party?

Mm-hmm

... yard signs that became Trump signs.

So when, when, when Hillary defeated Bernie, those voters came over to Trump, and there's no doubt that the president is flexing more of his populous economic message as opposed to the first administration conservative.

And so you make a great point is for a lot of voters who are looking for actually the government to get out of the economy, it's not as if Republicans are offering a clear contrast right now to Democrats.

Mm

... that should gain, gain Republicans a net of about 10 seats.

But two, our districts are more, are more...

There's fewer competitive districts today than there used to be.

The president obviously has

enormous confidence in Ratcliffe, but put him in charge of the CIA.

If China was interfering in 2020 elections, did they not in 2024? when Donald Trump was elected.

And so there's enormous questions there.

I think there are questions about, you know, if you're going to allege that this was China-influenced, then Dasha, why is the Trump 2.0 so soft on China? The first administration had a strong posture against China.

This is a very serious accusation that we should all take seriously if there's foreign interference.

But then why has there been such appeasement on TikTok, on lifting export controls of chips, on not standing with Taiwan? One step after another, this administration has been totally different than the first administration on China.

Mark, from a communications perspective, what is the strategy here? Why is Vance doing these interviews and talking about this?

So Massie by himself, Republicans clearly whip this, leave him on his own, and see what the Democrats do among themselves to fight this out.

Well, look, I, I think that this close to election season when, uh, Thomas Massie's not well-liked in the conference, there's no doubt they're very comfortable with him offering this on the floor, believing that this is what a lot of Democrats will vote exactly as they did.

And I think that the Democrats have a growing antisemitic problem in their caucus, and it's only gonna get worse when a lot of these Democrat socialists that they've been pushing forward have won nominations will likely be there next year.

Especially under this president

... certainly, especially under this president, Mike Pence does.

And, and you know, I think there are a couple times when, when, one, Donald Trump asked Mike to go renegotiate the Remain in Mexico policy.

Two, when Erdogan, uh, was slaughtering Kurds and crossed the border, he asked Mike Pence to go to Turkey and help solve that.

So he knows what's been asked by the president to go do these tasks.