What's your take on bringing that engineer into the-

Yeah, I'll go back to the late '90s.

I'm sure everybody remembers Y2K, and everybody saw that as an IT problem, except for the few that were worried about elevators stopping and power grids not running and other things that kind of intersect more with the, the critical infrastructure physical side of the world.

Engineers, you know, we're a different breed.

Uh, we look at things like a big system, and, uh, and we ask lots of questions.

You know, what if, what if, what if? And then we, we turn to our steam tables and our, our steel tables and, and all this accumulated knowledge and say, "Okay, here, here's the problem I have to solve.

Here's the engineer's approach to how to solve it." Well, over in the IT security world, which is where I was working in the late '90s, that is not the thinking at all.

And so the sooner we can get people to like just move on to the next stage through whatever means necessary, the better w- the faster we can have a more meaningful and useful conversation.

What's your take on bringing that engineer into the

business? Yeah, I'll go back to the late 90s.

I'm sure everybody remembers Y2K, and everybody saw that as an IT problem.

except for the few that were worried about elevators stopping and power grids not running and other things that kind of intersect more with the critical infrastructure physical side of the world.

Engineers, you know, we're a different breed.

We look at things like a big system and we ask lots of questions, you know, what if, what if, what if? And then we turn to our steam tables and our steel tables and all this accumulated knowledge and say, okay, here's the problem I have to solve.

Here's the engineer's approach to how to solve it.

Where do cyber-informed engineering and consequence-driven cyber-informed engineering run into friction with how critical infrastructure is actually regulated or its protections are incentivized?