Is there a recent victory that you had, um, where you really had to keep your eyes on the prize?

I've been supporting the Afghan women's soccer team in exile.

They are based in Australia.

They were evacuated when the Taliban took over, because the Taliban were, like, breaking into their houses and finding proof if these girls had played sports.

So the girls had actually buried their uniform and hidden their trophies so the Taliban would f- not find any proof.

Uh, and some of them were lucky that they were brought to Australia.

And despite all of those challenges, uh, you know, for them, the only way to have some hope was to be able to play football, soccer.

... you know, mentally challenge yourself?

The reason why you were closer to your father, was it something to do with the deep historical constraints actually placed on your mother in

society? I think it's partly true because my mother grew up in a very conservative culture.

There was like no secondary school for girls at the time.

She joined a local primary school, but she realized she was the only girl in that classroom.

She sold her books, never went to school again.

So my mother now in her 50s is going into this adult learning center and she's learning again.

She's very committed to her education now, but this is an opportunity that she did not get as a girl growing up.

And I understand there's also another school in

Mm

... attended that game, which is, like, insane.

And, um, yes, you know, I'm technically not on the advisory board of, uh, NWSL, but I sort of, like, joined those incredible group of people to go and show my support for the game.

And, uh, you know, I, I- I'm really interested in, um, supporting NWSL, but also, like, you know, we're looking at a wide range of sports, uh, in the US, in Europe, and globally because for me it is making a difference in the women's sports ecosystem.

And I always think that, you know, women's sports can thrive.

Uh, we see the numbers.

We see the projections are very positive, and they're growing fast.

How do we connect those more deeply globally?

How have you learnt to deal with that extraordinary pressure?

For me, it has always been about expectations, and it was not what people expect from me, but what I personally was expecting from myself.

And I had always felt this pressure that I am responsible for ensuring that every girl can get to go to school.

These things happened in my life so early that I had an idealist view of the world.

I thought that when people call you an activist or a change maker, it means you have power, and it means you can go and change things.

I was told that, you know, when you receive these titles and awards like the Nobel Peace Prize, and you get invited to meet presidents and prime ministers, you're supposed to change things.

So I always had felt this pressure that I am supposed to be at every place.

What, what made you see that marriage could be something different for you?

Mm

...

in a profession, in a job earning for themselves, be out as active participants in the community or in public life because there were no role models.

There were, like, no women who they could relate to.

So for me, like, I could finally understand that yes, like, my mom could just think like, "Okay, you know, like, maybe, you know, well, how could it be different for my daughter?" She-- They could not see that pathway.

Like, sure, my daughter is going into school now.

Things are slowly changing, but how much could it be different? In the end, it might be just the same thing, marriage and having a, a slightly supportive husband so you don't have to face the terrible things.

How did that manifest itself?

How did Mack's story resonate with you and your own experiences growing up in Pakistan?

The gunmen who shot me were told that I was not belonging to Islam or to their culture, that I was somebody alien to them, and I think that's where hatred and division begins.

You know, these are the things we need to address because when you connect with people from different backgrounds, from different cultures, faiths, you realize that there is shared humanity.

The gunman who was told all of that decided to attack me.

I survived that attempt, and the same thing happened in Mack's life as well, where he decided to attack hundreds of people, uh, Muslim people.

But, uh, it changed, and I think there is something powerful that changed that, and that is love, that is kindness, that is compassion, and I'm glad that Mack had the willingness to welcome that love.

And on the other hand, I'm just so happy that the people who he wanted to attack, they actually, even after knowing that Mack had planned all of this, they decided to invite him over for dinner and have a conversation with him.

How do you make sense of that?

Like you both have been such inspirations, but really what gets you out of bed in the morning today?

I always think about the girls who still do not have equal opportunities as us.

And I know we have come a long way and there's so much to celebrate, but I think about the 120 million girls who do not have access to education.

It makes me think about the 11-year-old girl, once I was, who simply wanted to be in school, but education was banned for her.

And in the past five years, it has been the stories of Afghan women and girls that keep me up at night.

Because what's happening in Afghanistan is also like a wake up call to all of us that if it can happen in one part of the world, it can happen anywhere.

An extremist group like the Taliban are punishing and they're like putting women in prison for daring to speak out.

How? How do we help?

And you weren't expecting that, right? You didn't think that you would be a target.

It wasn't that I never pictured it.

I had pictured it many times that this could happen.

I had pictured it at school.

I had pictured it at a, in my school bus.

I had pictured it on the street where I used to walk to school.

I, I knew that the Taliban could do anything, and I used to wonder, like, could I save myself? Like, you know, how could I make them understand that I'm actually not a threat.

Whoa

And you weren't expecting that, right? You didn't think that you would be a target.

It wasn't that I never pictured it.

I had pictured it many times, that this could happen.

I had pictured it at school.

I had pictured it at, uh, in my school bus.

I had pictured it on the street where I used to walk to school.

I, I knew that the Taliban could do anything, and I used to wonder, like, could I save myself? Like, you know, how could I make them understand that I'm actually not a threat.

So, um, what is the lesson for you about how difficult change really is in terms of what you can contribute to change?

And now our TED Talk of the day.

When I was a child, I thought changing the world was simple.

I would tell the people in charge all of my problems, and they would fix them.

I know how naive this sounds now, but at nine or ten years old, it made sense to me.

I lived in a remote mountainous region of Pakistan.

The prime minister was more than a hundred miles away from me in the capital city.

He couldn't see the trash polluting our rivers or our broken school bus or hospitals with outdated equipment.

[audience clapping]

Yeah

... and that was to see every girl in school.

So, like, I have constantly felt this pressure that I don't deserve any of this recognition until I see the day when the last out-of-school girl enters a classroom.

So, like, you know, to me, I thought, this is now a lot of responsibility on my shoulders, where I have to prove, you know, myself and also ensure that we-- like, I see this dream come true in my lifetime.

And because I was very, very young, like, I wanted to see things change immediately, and I knew that a lot of presidents and prime ministers at the time wanted to meet with me.

So I thought, you know, when they say that they care about girls' education, and they are so inspired by my story, and they want to do something for girls' education, I felt that they, they mean it and that, like, tomorrow, like, things will look different, and all girls would be in school.

Of course, it's been a long journey for me, and I have realised that it requires a, a lot of work.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Less so the noise out there, and it's really hard to separate both because the, what we hear, what we see, it affects us a lot, and I'm as human as everybody else.

[chuckles]

Yeah.

I have those emotions, too, but I want to ensure that I am listening to myself, and I'm being true to myself.

You never had a why did this have to happen to me?

Um, no, because I believe that whatever happened, bad or good, it's really important to focus on future and learn from your past, but in order to go forward, you have to focus on your future.

And if every day for the last three years, if I would have cried that why it was me, why it was me, nothing would have been done.

But instead of saying that, I said, "Okay, I, even though I was shot, but I'm not just the only girl who, uh, becomes victim of discrimination in society, or being attacked in terrorism, or getting deprived of education.

There are millions of girls, and the best way to fight against terrorism is to educate girls, is to empower them, is to raise their voices." And in those last three years, I made, um, trip to, to Jordan to speak out for Syrian refugees, and to went to Lebanon-

And so is courage something that you think other people can develop or give to themselves, this belief system that allowed you to stand up for what you believe was the right thing for girls to be able to go to school? Are other people able to have that?

Well, um, so there's, like, this fight between courage and fear, and sometimes we choose fear because we want to protect ourselves, but we don't realize that by choosing fear, we put ourselves in a situation that has really bad impact on us.

So if I would have kept silent in Swat Valley, and my father would have kept silent, and all of us would have kept silent, then there would not have been that moment when change would have come in our s- in our valley.

Why were, why were you against marriage?

I mean, growing up I had seen many girls lose the opportunity to complete their education, and, uh, and, you know, t- just their dreams to become a doctor or engineer because they were married off.

So, uh, like marriage, I ...

That was like the last thing I wanted to think about.

I did not want to get married.

It was like an ...

It was, it was not a cool thing.

How do you hold both of those truths about your parents, being fiercely brave, but also very concerned with the opinions of others?

How did that come about?

So, you know, in college, I was just trying all those exciting things that students are supposed to try.

And then one night the kids were trying bong and I had never seen it before.

So I thought it would be like an experience.

It took a very sharp and dark turn for me because I had never done it before.

And when I took the bong, it happened.

Like, you know, it froze me and it took me back to the flashbacks of the Taliban attack.

You write about your mental health and making sure you took care of yourself, which I think is so important, you know, and therapy did change your life in many ways.

Uh-huh

... uh, exploring and experimenting things, but that became my first and last bong experience [laughs] because it just didn't turn out, uh, how I expected it to be.

Uh, I, I remember that night because, you know, it became a scary night.

Uh, I was initially, like, with my friends.

We were just chatting about college life, and we were in the college gardens.

And they showed me bong, and I said, "Oh, like, what is this?" They said, you know, "It's sort of weed.

You try it." Um, and like first attempt, I coughed.

Because you thought that that would mean that you were weak or because, uh, it was going to be so much work to, uh, get to the other side of it?

Yeah.

Now, at this new school, I felt like a stranger.

I just thought nobody could ever know me.

I could not be that old self of mine.

And, you know, I, I would try to, like...

Like, I would try to have a conversation with, with people and it just, like...

You start an- and it dies quickly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, you know, it's, it's quite rare to be called a Nobel Peace Prize laureate and an education activist when you are still a teenager.

And I thought it means that I have to live a perfect life now.

I have to be a perfect daughter, a perfect person, I cannot get anything wrong, and that I'm supposed to know the answer to everything in my life, that I can't make mistakes.

Uh, but I realized that, you know, that was not the true me, that I didn't have to sacrifice friendship and so much of my normal life.

(laughs)

And there was this whole controversy on social media calling me out and saying that I had brought shame to the country and I was more like westernized and I was no longer representing my culture.

And I remember having this conversation with my parents who were like freaking out, and I told them that "I'm in college for studying to be a normal student.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, but in this new book, Finding My Way, I actually talk about my mom a lot more.

My mom never went to school.

She, um, grew up in a very patriarchal community, and you know, she had a very different upbringing.

She saw girls being forced into marriages.

And when she became a mother, like, her goal was to protect me.

So she was a very strict mom.

Yeah.

You see yourself as, "Look, I'm an ordinary girl, maybe representing thousands and thousands of ordinary girls, whose courage is the same in Pakistan and all over the world, as they just try for an education." I- is that how you feel about it?

I think I have this opportunity to raise my voice, and I believe that it's not just...

I'm not representing only myself, but I am speaking up for all girls who are deprived of education.

There are about 66 million girls, and I think I'm speaking up for them.

And sometime people do think that it has been forced upon me, or I haven't chosen this life, but the reality is that I have chosen this life, and if I wouldn't have liked it, I could have said no after that take, and would have said, "I don't want to come out and speak again." But I do feel a responsibility, and I do feel that it's my duty to say what's right.

And it's not that...

Sometimes we wait for others and think that a Martin Luther should raise among us, a Nelson Mandela should raise among us, and speak up for us, but we never realize that they are normal humans like us, and if we step forward, we can also bring change, just like them.

This is really the first generation in many of these areas that have ever been exposed to this.

Yeah.

But I still carry optimism within me, because I, I, I work together with Afghan women activists and I have seen their bravery and resilience.

And they are, they are protesting on their streets.

They are learning in secret.

They are creating these underground schools.

So when I look at that, I'm like, "No, there, there's still some hope." And, and it's a reminder, I think, to women and girls everywhere, that this world of gender equality that we were promised is actually very fragile, and maybe it's not that real as we think.

If the whole country of Afghanistan can ban girls' education, and that is something that we have sort of, um, normalized, that means it can happen anywhere else as well.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

I took a Taliban bullet when I was a child, and since then I, I just have one, one truth in front of me, and that is no child should take a bullet for daring to be in school, and no, no girl should be left behind for daring to be in a classroom.

And this is the mission that I now work for.

Um, yeah, I think it's, it's just, you know, like when you go through a physical pain-... yourself, you just do not want it to happen to anybody else.

I have built values of forgiveness, empathy through that.

I have become, um, more open to, you know, u- uh, understanding other people's emotions and, um, yeah, I just, you know, it's, it's just this dream that can this world be a peaceful place? Can we, can we stop wars, can we stop violence, and can children have a life in peace where they can be in schools and have a future and can have a life that they can live in dignity?

What moment do you choose?

It would be my, uh......

Mm

... and how, you know, lucky those of us are who get the opportunity to get an education and to follow our dreams because the Taliban denied all of that to women and girls in my hometown.

But I have treasured every moment that I had with my friends.

The moments I had, uh, in, in Swat Valley before the Taliban took over, we were surrounded by beautiful mountains.

We lived by the rivers, and I loved being closer to nature.

But, you know, even, even during the Taliban time, when we would secretly go to school, hide our books, and-

Ah

...

... people start losing their shit about it, or you're wearing a headscarf and the Daily Mail says, "Why are you a slave to, you know, f- traditional roles of women in Islam." I just don't know how you coped with that.

I was shocked that people would be commenting about me wearing jeans or they would have a problem with me wearing a headscarf, but it's just a reminder that women are constantly scrutinized and it's not easy for us, but at college I just wanted to be a normal student, I was not there to represent any culture or do some campaign for a specific cause.

I remember receiving this call from my parents after the whole jeans backlash happened where they were really concerned and they s- asked if I would, like, defend myself or issue a statement and I told them that, "I am not going to say anything because, um, why is it that always girls are targeted?" When my brothers moved to the UK, they immediately switched their dress code, they were wearing jeans and tops, but nobody criticized them, there was no controversy, but only when I decided to wear jeans it became a whole controversy.

I would always worry wha- uh, about what I say in the public, what I wear, who am I upsetting this time, but I also realize that there's no ideal world in which everybody would be happy with you, I need to stay focused on my mission and that is helping girls get their education so I wanna stick to that, but I also want to be (laughs) myself.

You know, I- I'm still a young person who's navigating her way and why am I not allowed to explore different things, whether that is what I want to wear and how I want to experience my life? I had to challenge myself in having this very fixed view about how I was supposed to live, and because I became an activist at a young age, I thought that I was supposed to live my life in- in one way.

And then I realized that I'm not even gonna grow if I don't allow myself to have these experiences, like, I don't even know who I am (laughs) and somehow I have to make sure that nobody is saying a- a bad comment? Like, if that is the way I determine my life, I will not be true to myself.

instead of your brilliance.

Y- yes.

You were in Swat, this area of Pakistan.

A very beautiful valley in the north of Pakistan, and we had a pretty normal life until this extremist militant group took over our valley and the Taliban started imposing restrictions on women and girls, including a ban on girls' education.

It affected my education directly, it affected the education of all of my female friends because girls could no longer go to school.

They were punished if they dared to even learn, and it was very scary, dark time, and that's when my journey of activism began.

It's not like I was passionate about doing something for my community from a very early age, but circumstances changed, so the way I became an activist was simply because I was responding to this new reality where I could not have a future without an education, and I knew I have no choice but to speak out.

Yeah.

... learning about cells, or I have to do an essay for my English subject or solve some math problems, that I somehow need to be able to address policymakers about their budgets for girls' education.

And I need to have the correct opinion about every political issue out there.