Did you want to say something about that? And I had something to add as well, but...

Yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons that this exists.

But what I do think is really objective is that there's a gap in partner support and kind of the perinatal mental health world.

I mean, I have led support groups.

I have also been a part of support groups.

And I have never once been a part of anything or led anything that was only for me.

mothers or birthing parents, right? Like ever.

Like, what do you see in terms of the emotional side that they are experiencing in the NICU and like maybe what their partners might be experiencing as well?

Walk us through like what happens on that day that sort of changed the trajectory of your family and certainly your outlook on what life might look like after her birth.

Yeah, it was a pretty, an eventful day.

pregnancy, there weren't any signs or anything that kind of pointed to, um, things, you know, going awry at the 11th hour.

Um, and so we went to the hospital, um, really pretty early in the we saw like the presence of meconium, which I had not had with my oldest daughter.

I knew what it was.

Um, and I knew that it was fairly common in birth, but didn't really know much outside of that.

Uh, I had just gotten, so that had happened already like twice.

wild rod, whether it's, you know, one day or 150 days.

For those listeners who don't yet know your story, would you be willing to share just a little bit about your daughter and what eventually led to this book?

Sure.

So similar to Emily, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Um, my specialty is also in perinatal mental health.

So I was doing this work before my daughter Sachi was born.

I would say at that time I was working with a lot of clients who had navigated birth trauma.

That's actually kind of how I found Emily.

Mahalia, for you, as you were going through it, what kind of responses felt supportive after your daughter's death, and which ones, um, were unintentionally making the experience so much harder for you?