Yeah.

So I was the perfect child, the good kid, the one that nobody ever needed to worry about, the delight to have in class.

I was in talented and gifted, all of it.

And I really thought I was fine.

Like I did.

I had a great childhood.

I would have told you that.

You as a

Like-

Well, and we, we are gonna fall into the way that we were parented, period, the end.

Like, the goal, it's not possible to be parented one way and then completely break every cycle.

I don't break every cycle.

Like, I mess up all the time, okay? Like, just let- let's just start there, okay? [laughs] I do think that there are some pretty toxic [sighs] beliefs that are running around in the, um, cycle breaking community that are, like, perfectionism and other stuff, and I just call bullshit.

No, ma'am.

Like, we all mess up.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Not therapy, a parenting intervention.

And the shame, at 12th grade, the shame-prone kids, forgive me, I don't remember the exact statistic.

The number in my mind is like 400%, more likely to experience poor outcomes, like substance use and abuse, eating disorders, anxiety, depression, self-harm, reckless, um, sexual behavior, just like, or risky sexual behavior, reckless behavior as a child.

The guilt-prone kids who could make a mistake and say, "I did something bad," there was an inverse correlation with those people.And the study concluded that the biggest determining factor of whe- whether kids fall shame-prone or guilt-prone is parenting style.

And like the way that stopped me in my damn tracks, I really think I'm here today because of that study, and just hear- like the way that she just connected the dots right to parenting.

And I just remember being like, "Oh my God, that's it." Like, it's-

Right.

So like, how do we do that in that container in a loving way?

Yeah.

I mean, I think we, so much of this is about healing ourselves.

I tell a story in the book about how badly, like, I don't think I've ever wanted anything as much as I wanted to be a soft spot to land when my kids needed to be needy.

And when my daughter, I don't know if it was my, she was three when my son was born.

So I don't know if it was like around that time.

I remember this and I don't remember anything.

But like, what would we do?