Mm-hmm.

...

when I'm saying no, and the reason is because as a reporter, and you both know this as reporters, there is that unfortunate time where you're standing on a street trying to get people to talk to you about a story and it is the most humbling experience of all time because people, like, they don't even recognize that you exist on the planet.

And, and so ...

And that's when you're, like, a public radio reporter or a, or magazine writer like Naomi is.

And so I try to, if I'm saying no, still, like, make eye contact and say, like, "No, thanks, but, like, I see that you're a human being in the world."

Got to make it worth it.

I actually...