How does that feel at this juncture after you've just released something to market, after you've been working on it for, what, seven years? [laughs]

Yeah.

Well, seven years is, is a long time and, and the journey with Perpetual was one that was constant and fraught with challenges.

Um, I think, um, you, you never embark on a project like an innovation project knowing exactly where you're going to land.

And once you go down a certain path, you have to commit, and there's really no turning back, but with no kind of, um, assured outcomes.

And so you have to, the, the main thing that really gets you through a project like that is your team and, you know, um, really enjoying coming into work and collaborating with certain people and, um, and, and enjoying the work and, and just sheer grit, I think.

And, um, and that can be fun and it can be really exhausting, you know?

... was there like one moment when you're like, "Oh my gosh, I've had enough of this" with the existing structure, or did it slowly dawn on you that there was room to change that?