But why is it particularly rife in the equestrian world? 'Cause we've all experienced it.

Why is it rife in the equestrian world? I think that somehow the horse does something, the competitiveness of the horse, the stress of the job, and again, that poor process, it allows it to happen.

I would say, is it rife if...

I mean, that survey was done in 2017.

Is it still, how many years later are we? Eight years later or so.

Is it still everywhere? I think it's probably less so because I think there's a l- been a lot more awareness through, um, Not On My Yard, which was a good campaign, bullying, anti-bullying campaign, and now through the work we've done and through the work of Riders Minds, which is a fantastic charity that I was, I founded.

I was part of the founding team.

How do you monitor these workplaces, and how do you make sure that this, the, all of these workplace sort of initiatives and, and, uh, responsibilities and that the atmosphere, that's the word I'm trying to pinpoint here, the atmosphere of a workplace is monitored? It's very difficult.