We did do it, and now looking back I'm like, was that the right thing? Because we were just speaking about how feeding to sleep is so demonized, and I would really love for you to, like, expand a bit on that because I think it is so important to share with, like, parents that if they are breastfeeding or even bottle feeding, that that can be a useful and absolutely fine way to get their baby to sleep.

Yeah.

I mean, it's biological norm.

Like, it's so unbelievably effective, and it's ...

I mean, I'm not saying that, uh, bottle feeding isn't effective as well, 'cause it absolutely is, but breast milk has literal sleep hormones in it.

We wouldn't have been created so wrong.

So there's a million different reasons why it's effective.

I don't want to stop breastfeeding, but it seems like such an attachment for, for sleep."

So I'd really like, before we go into the detail, for you to explain what does holistic actually mean when it comes to baby sleep?

sleep?Fine.

So I feel like a lot of these words are sort of used as buzzwords in the sleep industry at the moment, and it is, which is quite frustrating.

What holistic literally means is of the whole.

And so what's really important for me when looking at infant sleep is understanding that it's not just about one thing.

It's not just about sleep [chuckles] apart from anything else.

And I think this is a very, very key difference between my support, and many others like me as well, and sort of more traditional sleep training, where more traditional sleep training there is a hyperfocus on how a child falls asleep, basically.

So before we go into those depths of, like, the intricacies of sleep, I'd love to understand from your perspective, if we, like, took away tracking apps and books and social media and everything that can confuse sleep as a whole, what would you say that normal sleep looks like in that first year of a baby's life?