And my question is, what have you observed, learned yourself, heard from other healthcare professionals as what are their holes? What are their coping mechanisms to not cripple their arm? And hopefully everything that they experience day in, day out and all that burden, that pressure, that emotional toll, let it flow through them.

Yeah, I think, you know, it's a really good question.

And I can only speak for myself because I think, you know, again, it goes back to personality, you know.

It goes back to what are you like as a person? Are you an introvert? Are you an extrovert? How do you deal with it? You know, you do have a self-made community in some ways in healthcare.

but it can also be incredibly isolating, which is a weird thing.

When you're with people but you don't feel part of them, it's that kind of lonely and isolating thing.

For me, I've got incredible friends.

You

But are women participating

in looks maxing as well? Yes, I mean, the culture's changing for everyone and it's going at such a pace that just like Zach said, we don't really have research to kind of, you know, confirm anything in a statistical way just yet.

But absolutely, women have been looks maxing, which, you know, really is conforming to social pressures about what we need to look like and that kind of hierarchy of bodies and appearance for women.

you know, a very long time.

Now, in the age of social media and the kind of normalization of sort of hyper focus on our appearance and kind of treating our bodies like they're renovations that are constantly in play.

This is definitely occurring.

I see it happening in my practice.

So I wonder, you know, in your work with a lot of female clients, if you have anything to add to how to have that conversation.

But w- are women participating in looksmaxing as well?

Yes.

Uh, I mean, the culture's changing for everyone, and it's going at such a pace that, just like Zach said, we, we don't really have research to kind of, you know, confirm anything in, uh, i- in a statistical way just yet.

But absolutely, women have been looksmaxing, which, you know, really is, you know, conforming to social pressures about what we need to look like and that kind of hierarchy of bodies and appearance for, you know, a very long time.

Now, in the age of social media and the kind of normalization of sort of hyperfocus on our appearance and kind of treating our bodies like they're renovations that are constantly i- in, in play, this is definitely occurring.

Uh, I see it happening in my practice.

Uh, I see mainly women in, in a few different ways.

I, I really didn't have to do that to myself, but I did." So I wonder, you know, in your work with, uh, a lot of female clients, if you have anything to add to how to have that conversation.

Right? As you were saying that, I know you were talking about the obesity group in Canada, but what I'm hearing and what I'm seeing is Oprah pounding that message for about two years, up to last year, pounding that message over and over and over again.

Yeah, that's a little, it was unsettlingly familiar messaging, wasn't it? I agree.

And she's done a couple of TV specials.

Here in Australia, it's actually hard for us to watch those.

But thanks to Reagan, I have managed to look at it.

Everyone in her first TV specials had been you know sponsored all of the doctors that were on the stage had been heavily sponsored by novena all of the main messages came out of oprah oprah's incredibly polished and powerful media voice you know she she stepped away from weight watchers and um you know of course oprah doesn't have to disclose what um shares she is invested in but um You know, you don't have to be a genius and look at Oprah's track record.

She will go where the wind is blowing in terms of, you know, what's on point.

This body of ours is fighting to come back.